How good do you have to be to teach?

[Siegmund]

Like it says on the tin. Just interested in hearing some different viewpoints or experiences here.

There are quite a few skills where it is common for very inexperienced people to teach for a living. (Learning to fly an airplane is one such example, in the USA: a great many people who want to be pilots are students for their first 250 hours, teachers from 250 hours to 1500 hours, and then move to a "real job" with an airline or a government agency.) On the other hand, when I played violin, even when I was playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star my teachers all had college music degrees and were good enough to be first chair in a community orchestra or the middle of the pack in a lower tier professional orchestra.

How soon did you feel ready to teach a beginner?
How long did you have to play before you were sure you wouldn't be teaching unintentional bad habits?

 

[Rosie C]

I think teaching a beginner is just as important as teaching someone at grade 8. I see adverts for teachers no more qualified than I am offering to teach beginners. My own teachers have music degrees, while I'm around grade 5-6 (NOT on accordion! ). I've been asked to teach and always turned it down - I'm miles away from being a good teacher.

 

[Dingo40]

When I was working for the local Department of Education, there was a chronic shortage of skilled specialist teachers.
Consequently, many graduates in "the arts " found themselves teaching science subjects or mathematics, frequently only a few pages ahead of their students in the textbook.
I myself was "taught" an advanced mathematics course by the school's ageing music teacher who claimed he'd never studied mathematics himself .
I'm afraid this fact was rather self-evident and attendance at his lessons dropped away quite quickly.

 

[Tom]

I think you have to be a competent player. Enough to understand and teach the basics to a beginner. More importantly is that you have to be a good teacher. I think you, Gordon, know what a good teacher is or isn’t. A good teacher but basic player beats a poor teacher but excellent player any day in my book.

I’ve taught a lot of things in my day including basic accordion. It’s been discussed on here before. It involves the ability to impart the requisite knowledge, as well as an astute grasp of the student’s abilities and learning skills so that you are demonstrating and teaching what they need to understand and progress. Not rocket science, but not trivial either.

Good luck!

 

[Ventura]

i cannot teach

i do not understand the method of teaching..
(my Sister in law is a teacher, she has explained to
me that She, and all Teachers, are taught HOW to TEACH
and it has little or nothing to do with what you are teaching)

i can give clues

someone who knows something about playing music or accordion
and is trying to improve and get past walls, i can often help them
by observing their issue and giving them assistance

but in no instance would what i provide be worth being paid for
nor could i do it on a weekly basis

 

[murathan]

You must have a will to teach first. Then you make a general program of what to teach. It can be from books or in my case I wrote PDF booklets myself. Students dont come as beginners always. Also students will develop in time. They will have many questions for you on different levels. You must be answering them in general. To answer these normal level questions, you must be playing the accordion at least good.

You must feel like you be able to do this. Its a patience job.

My story is different so I cant say when to start teaching because I was already graduated from bassoon before I started accordion. We had 2 year piano lessons too. I started teaching at the 4th year of accordion.

Anyways if you feel like you can do this, you may start and see what will happen. You start with a general program but you will learn a lot of things while you are teaching too. Every student is a different case so you learn to be flexible while you continue what to do.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

In the USA, we have non-musical people that assume that because one plays piano-accordion one can also play piano. Inversely, many people think that because one plays piano, or electronic keyboard, or organ, they can also play accordion. Unfortunately, many keyboard or piano teachers will say that they they can teach accordion even if they never played one. Chances are they don't understand how to use bellows or are the least bit familiar with the Stradella bass layout. So, my advice to a potential accordion student is to seek out an accordion teacher who actually performs on accordion.

Second, I'd advise that potential student to find somebody with successful teaching experience. That can be ascertained by recommendations from those who are taking lessons AND ARE HAPPY with their current accordion teacher. If the potential student doesn't know anyone who takes accordion lessons, they can ask a potential teacher for references among their current and past students. A degree in music education doesn't substitute for successful teaching experience. There are accordion teachers who never pursued such a degree, but are just naturally-born good teachers.

 

[Siegmund]

...my Sister in law is a teacher, she has explained to
me that She, and all Teachers, are taught HOW to TEACH
and it has little or nothing to do with what you are teaching...

That is one of those things that is quite carefully taught to people who are going to teach in K-12 schools... but completely ignored if you're going to be a college professor or if you're going to teach something privately.

In music, it seems a lot of the people who get the music education degree and know that is what they want to do wind up as high school band teachers or the like... whereas a lot of the people giving private lessons got performance degrees but (like 99% of their peers) had no shot at a solo career. Some of them get quite good at discovering how to teach on their own, some never do.

 

[John Doe]

"How good do you have to be to teach?"

Not good at all.

"How good ought you have to be to teach?"

And in what areas.

The skill set involves far more than technical proficiency. The world is full of really talented individuals who simply can't effectively convey what it is that they do to others. Attitude, desire, empathy, and interpersonal skills are all required. There are many good teachers- in terms of helping their students become more proficient- but what is a GREAT teacher for a beginner may be a miserable choice for someone who already plays pretty well.

And as in virtually every aspect of life- what fits one like a glove is a complete misfit for another.

 

[JerryPH]

I am a natural educator, having been a certified instructor for 90% of my professional career and I have taken many years courses on how to teach. Different courses covering how to teach children, teens, adults and the "difficult" versions of each. I've successfully passed exams for instructors where the passing rate was under 10%.

I have also studied music with some of the best instructors in the world (Marcel Proulx who studied with Magante and other big names in New York, then with Glen Sawich, a man who received his Masters from Joseph Macerollo).

I don't say this to brag but to say that I believe I know what good instruction is and what it takes to be a bad, ok or great teacher in music and other topics.

Anyone can teach anything, but if you are serious about being a good teacher, you will have paid your dues, meaning you are not some Joe Shmow that has challenges playing PH book 8 and wants to make a few bucks.

Your music theory will be STRONG, your playing abilities will be STRONG and your teaching abilities will be the equal of your knowledge and playing abilities and you will have performed for decades successfully both solo and in groups or orchestras.

I've personally never wanted to be a teacher of music, but have done it ONCE as a simple guide more than as an all out teacher for one of our members here.

I will end my OPINION here by stating a phrase my father told me as a very young man, that was "do it once, do it right or don't do it at all".

Teaching music for me is too important to do half-assed, maybe that is why I never took the step of teaching accordion on a bigger scale, it touches something special within me and I cannot walk that path.

Inside it drives me nuts inside when I see an incompetent person try to be that teacher when they have no business doing it.

How good? In knowledge playing and ability to convey knowledge... damn good should be the STARTING POINT of all music teachers... too bad this is not the reality.

 

[Ben-jammin]

Until remote learning became viable, it’s been really difficult to find teachers in my area. I’ve heard of potential students that wanted to learn but couldn’t manage to find a teacher local enough, so just gave up. I think in these cases even a mediocre player may be a better teacher than no teacher at all. I don’t argue that a more proficient player would be a better choice, but it seems there’s only a small percentage of those skilled players that are interested in teaching.

 

[debra]

I have taught beginners in how to play the accordion when I was not yet really very good myself. And my teacher also had no teaching degree for accordion, all for the simple reason that the accordion was a forbidden instrument. There was no formal accordion education in my country, anywhere. But I did study the piano from a qualified teacher, and harmony as well... Much later accordion became a recognized instrument in music schools and the conservatorium and my need for teaching beginners disappeared. I'm glad about that because I don't really have the patience to teach beginners and certainly not adult beginners. I do have a teaching degree, but it's in science, not music.
I know several people with a teaching degree in accordion and I'm somewhat disappointed about how little they know about their instrument, and the older ones know even less, which probably stems from our instruments being too recent for it to have had a solid foundation in teaching is 40 to 60 years ago... Accordion is also one of the few instruments for which the professional training does not include *anything* about how to deal with minor issues with the instrument itself. Piano players typically cannot do anything, not even tune a single note, but accordion players also cannot do anything and have to either ignore problems (and state they are part of the nature of the instrument) or run back and forth to a repairer.
I'm pretty sure I could be a good accordion teacher now (much better than when I was actually teaching the accordion) but I don't have the time, the patience or the desire to do so.

 

[Vladimir M.]

"How good do you have to be to teach?"

This question is like a mathematical equation where both sides are equal. Or better said: the teacher's goal is, in the optimal case, to bring the student to his equal level:

TEACHER = STUDENT

From this aspect, it is important what kind of student it is. For J.S. Bach and/or G.F. Handel, for example, only a temporary "study stay" with their "teacher" (Dietrich Buxtehude) was sufficient. Dietrich Buxtehude may not have been a good teacher, but he was a great composer and organist. Therefore, he was a role model for both geniuses.

And vice versa. You can be a great teacher, but if the talent on the other side (student) is lacking, you're out of luck. You'll fail. I know many parents who wanted their child to learn to play a musical instrument, even though they had no talent for it and didn't enjoy it.

If any talent is present, it's like in the universe: First, the student reflects the light of his teacher's skills just as the moon reflects the light of the sun. And in the case of the most capable/genious, over time a new, beautiful shining star will be ignited...

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[John M]

Here's my spin. I have a B.S. degree in Electrical Engineering and M.S. in Mechanical Engineering from Case Institute Of Technology -- very difficult for me. While in my Masters program, while I was doing my thesis, I taught underclassmen in various courses. What I found is, I am a very good teacher (in a very narrow band) with students that have the difficult problems I had (I can identify with him). I had a very difficult time in undergrad engineering school -- I almost flunked out. If I am teaching a general class of students with a large range of intelligence, I don't do well. When I teach, since I had such a hard time in engineering school, I try to explain basic principals in a very "down to earth" manner so students can understand. The "hotshots", that hardly have to study are totally bored with my teaching. I do very well with hard working "slow learners" that want to learn and do well.

 

[saundersbp]

I've found the best teachers have a broad knowledge of music beyond just the cul-de-sac of accordion. These are people that are more interested in helping their students develop than they are in their own music making.

Two things have shocked me about some accordion teachers: quite a few lost in their own muiscal universe of one; and secondly little ability sometimes teach more than one system
and really low level free bass playing. I guess the bar is low for our instrument and that suits the demand!

 

[JeffJetton]

I have a guitar teacher friend who (jokingly!) says that you've just got to be one page ahead of the student in the method book.

Anyway, a lot of it depends on the level of student you're teaching, and the sort of thing(s) they want to learn. You do have to be able to play those things correctly (idiomatically, in time, with good form, etc.), since the student is going to model themselves after what they hear and see you do. And you have to have the knowledge to be able to tell, when the student plays those things, what needs adjusting/fixing. You have to be able to convey how to practice well, and know any theory required to help the student appropriately understand the music they're playing at the moment.

You have to have an abundance of patience. And empathy for the sort of beginner's journey you might have long-forgotten going through yourself.

But as long as you have that for the level the student is at, I don't think you necessarily need to be some Julliard-trained, free-bass-flyin', expert. If you're not, it may become an issue at some point if the student wants to go in that direction, but a lot of them don't. None that I've taught have, at least.

Mostly, my students just want to have fun with the instrument, play songs they know and enjoy, and maybe jam along with friends. I have to be good enough to not steer them wrong along that path.

In any case, remember that the best tennis players in the world still have coaches. Obviously the coaches, while very good players themselves, are not currently as good as their students (otherwise they'd be the best tennis player), but their value lies in being able to observe, advise, and guide the student.

 

[Thomas N]

I like kids a lot and love to see them advance through the rankings of any of their endeavors. I always thought it would be great to start a smaller accordion school, maybe 5-10 students in total. About 20 years ago I bought all the Palmer-Hughes instruction books (1-10 or maybe more) and went through them. Pretty easy stuff but of course I've been playing for 50 years now.

I'm not a natural teacher for sure, but if it's a subject I like I seem to do well enough. I was a tutor in the Calculus lab back in college and it was quite interesting. There were students that just didn't get it and those were really rough for me. No analogy or help seemed to push them in the right direction.

Maybe when I retire soon I'll start up again. I think with kids and the accordion it's mostly the parents pushing them at that age. That certainly was the case with me and my Italian father. Most "normal" kids nowadays don't say "Hey, a really cool instrument is the ACCORDION! I'd love to learn to play one of those!" LOL! There are no accordion heroes here in the US and perhaps the most well-known is Weird Al and he's, honestly, a pretty lousy accordionist. So you're kind of stuck with a bunch of students that may not really want to be there.

Well, it's something to think about.

 

[Walker]

Top tip: best if you can avoid public displays of rage or vocal criticism directed towards your teacher... especially when you're self-taught.

 

[Rosie C]

I have a guitar teacher friend who (jokingly!) says that you've just got to be one page ahead of the student in the method book.

Ah, that wouldn't work with me - my piano teacher has admitted he never knows what I'm going to ask in a lesson, usually cross-referencing to other instruments, or pulling in music theory (I have grade 6). Happily he has a masters, so it will be a while before I catch up to him!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I am a natural educator, having been a certified instructor for 90% of my professional career and I have taken many years courses on how to teach. Different courses covering how to teach children, teens, adults and the "difficult" versions of each. I've successfully passed exams for instructors where the passing rate was under 10%.

I have also studied music with some of the best instructors in the world (Marcel Proulx who studied with Magante and other big names in New York, then with Glen Sawich, a man who received his Masters from Joseph Macerollo).

I don't say this to brag but to say that I believe I know what good instruction is and what it takes to be a bad, ok or great teacher in music and other topics.

Anyone can teach anything, but if you are serious about being a good teacher, you will have paid your dues, meaning you are not some Joe Shmow that has challenges playing PH book 8 and wants to make a few bucks.

Your music theory will be STRONG, your playing abilities will be STRONG and your teaching abilities will be the equal of your knowledge and playing abilities and you will have performed for decades successfully both solo and in groups or orchestras.

I've personally never wanted to be a teacher of music, but have done it ONCE as a simple guide more than as an all out teacher for one of our members here.

I will end my OPINION here by stating a phrase my father told me as a very young man, that was "do it once, do it right or don't do it at all".

Teaching music for me is too important to do half-assed, maybe that is why I never took the step of teaching accordion on a bigger scale, it touches something special within me and I cannot walk that path.

Inside it drives me nuts inside when I see an incompetent person try to be that teacher when they have no business doing it.

How good? In knowledge playing and ability to convey knowledge... damn good should be the STARTING POINT of all music teachers... too bad this is not the reality.

Hi Jerry,

I, too, have a teaching background. I put in 33.5 years in the New York City system — 31 if them as a teacher of homebound kids with a brief stint teaching emotionally-handicapped kids in a classroom setting. Some of my homebound students were also special ed kids and in order to get my license and state certification, I had to take courses in special ed for the equivalent of a second Masters degree after already having one. The last half of my career they had me teaching things like high school sciences, math, and AP computer science. The closest I ever came to teaching accordion was a semester of music appreciation and a few weeks doing electronic music.

After retiring from that program, I volunteered with an agency’s day program for developmentally-disabled adults, doing simple computer tasks with the higher-functioning individuals for just under ten years.

Only after that program stopped did I return to accordion. I spent some time with a guy who claimed to be the only accordion teacher in my area. He didn’t do too much teaching. He didn’t use a methods series. He’d see me for a couple of hours every three weeks, during which time he’d scribble out five or six songs of varying difficulty and ask me to learn them for the next lesson, but put my own touches into them. If he liked an ‘idea’ that I used, he’d tell me that he was going to use it in his own playing. When I asked him how I could improve my fingering, he just said, “Fingering is a very individual topic,” and it went no further than that.

Then I found out that there was another teacher, about an hour away from me. This guy was the genuine article. He never went beyond high school, but he was a great teacher. We began with Hanon, scales, arpeggios and block chords, all of this while going through a method series supplemented with simple arrangements of pop songs that we embellished, along with some theory along the way. My fingering improved with his help, and he showed me how to figure out the fingering for a new piece on my own.

I said that he was the genuine article, and I meant it. He could quote Schoenberg. He played at restaurants and jazz clubs, whereas the first guy played at libraries for seniors. I’d see him for an hour once a week, but that soon grew gradually into two hours — one for accordion and another trying to convert me to his political views, which he knew were the opposite of mine. I finally had to stop seeing him because of that second hour and I’ve been on my own ever since.