Free bass, low notes a bottom

[stickista]

I’ve been playing a CBA midi controller for for a few months that allows me to sit at it piano-style, and I’m loving the way it allows me to leverage my piano instincts by unifying my conceptual mental map into a single field.
After years of playing mirrored free bass, as all (?) C Griff instruments are, I’ve never really felt that I truly unified my hands the way I now feel it with my pinky playing the low roots.
In addition, age related shakiness in my left hands means I’m not doing a ton of complex melodic counterpoint on the left anyway. mostly bass notes and 1/7/3, 1/5/2 shell voicings and arpeggiations with a little countermovement. I just love the versatility that free bass gives me over stradella.
As an Accordina player who does really complex RH chordal arrangements, most of the action for me is in my right hand anyway, with the left playing a supporting role.

As a result, I’m taking the plunge and having my new Benetoux C griff accordion built Bayan style, with low notes towards the floor in the bass side.

Anyone (particularly B system players) have any thoughts on this?
I do understand that it means my heirs will be inheriting a virtually unsellable instrument.
But the musical fluency this has been giving me, at least on the midi controller, is really exciting.

 

[tcabot]

I think these things are down to personal preference.
I reckon that on a 3-row chromatic, a bayan layout is better than a European B-griff (with low notes at the top).
At the same time, I found reverse moschino (with low notes at the top) to be a lot better than real Moschino or related Kusserow with low notes at the bottom.

I do think that mirrored left & right are overrated. By the time you've put in enough hours practicing scales it really doesn't matter whether at the start of your journey the keyboards were mirrored or completely unrelated.

If you haven't put in the practice time, mirrored keyboards won't help.

 

[stickista]

I think these things are down to personal preference.
I reckon that on a 3-row chromatic, a bayan layout is better than a European B-griff (with low notes at the top).
At the same time, I found reverse moschino (with low notes at the top) to be a lot better than real Moschino or related Kusserow with low notes at the bottom.

I do think that mirrored left & right are overrated. By the time you've put in enough hours practicing scales it really doesn't matter whether at the start of your journey the keyboards were mirrored or completely unrelated.

If you haven't put in the practice time, mirrored keyboards won't help.

Right side is 3 row. Left will be 4 row, which makes it easier on my hand.

 

[craigd]

I have one of those unsellable reverse bass C griff instruments, but just to make darn sure my heirs will be stuck with it, mine is Finnish C system. Five row right hand, convertor bass with only three rows on the left.

I wrote a post a while ago about something unexpected I discovered while learning play the instrument. I've had a much easier time figuring out fingering for my left hand than for my right. This includes when playing exercises in unison with my right and left hands. I'm not sure how much I'm benefiting from the piano-like continuity you describe, but the way my fingers are able to find their way on the left is making me wonder about a double reverse instrument. I'll either start a revolution in accordion design or leave my heirs with two mongrel accordions.

 

[kimric]

As someone who has done accordion design ,having the low notes on the bottom makes mechanical sense. The issue with having the low notes on top is that the instrument needs to be bulky, or the reeds compromised by making them shorter and weighting the tips (slower response).
Placing to low reeds on the bottom means the biggest reeds on the left are opposed to the smallest reeds on the right, and the same in reverse on the top. This allows the instrument to be a bit more compact, while leaving more space for the reeds.
I converted a 1920's "false piano" chromatic for a customer where I put the guts of a giuleitti freebass into it to replace the stradella left side with the high reeds on the bottom, this made me very aware of this issue.

 

[breezybellows]

I’ve been playing a CBA midi controller for for a few months that allows me to sit at it piano-style, and I’m loving the way it allows me to leverage my piano instincts by unifying my conceptual mental map into a single field.
After years of playing mirrored free bass, as all (?) C Griff instruments are, I’ve never really felt that I truly unified my hands the way I now feel it with my pinky playing the low roots.
In addition, age related shakiness in my left hands means I’m not doing a ton of complex melodic counterpoint on the left anyway. mostly bass notes and 1/7/3, 1/5/2 shell voicings and arpeggiations with a little countermovement. I just love the versatility that free bass gives me over stradella.
As an Accordina player who does really complex RH chordal arrangements, most of the action for me is in my right hand anyway, with the left playing a supporting role.

As a result, I’m taking the plunge and having my new Benetoux C griff accordion built Bayan style, with low notes towards the floor in the bass side.

Anyone (particularly B system players) have any thoughts on this?
I do understand that it means my heirs will be inheriting a virtually unsellable instrument.
But the musical fluency this has been giving me, at least on the midi controller, is really exciting.

Hello Jerry!

I'm glad you got your custom instrument delivered!

 

[stickista]

Hello Jerry!

I'm glad you got your custom instrument delivered!

actually, that’s just a photo of what it will look like, but exactly.
Unfortunately, it could be months away yet.

 

[breezybellows]

actually, that’s just a photo of what it will look like, but exactly.
Unfortunately, it could be months away yet.

Did it get delayed?

 

[tcabot]

That's a nice looking box.

Is the LHS a converter, or purely fb? A converter on a box this size would be exceptional.

 

[JerryPH]

That's a nice looking box.

Is the LHS a converter, or purely fb? A converter on a box this size would be exceptional.

It is gorgeous. Because of the 4 rows on the left hand I am going to guess that it is FB only. If stradella it would be quite limited to major and minor chords only if it has a bass/counter-bass setup.

 

[Walker]

As the old Scottish song goes...

Oh ye'll tak' the high road and I'll tak' the low road,
An' I'll be playing free bass accordion before ye!

Okay, I might have adapted the words, just a little.

Free bass accordion is tough and requires huge amounts of practice, regardless of system, so who cares whether you go North, South, West or East for the low notes? I'm not sure that the 'direction of travel' from high notes to low notes really matters THAT much.

...Or does it?

Okay, okay... granted, some pieces of music will be easier on some systems than others. If I played Russian bayan music night and day, I'm sure I'd choose a B system bayan free bass. If I played a lot of romantic or contemporary music I may choose C system left hand. I, however, spend great swathes of time delving into 17th century harpsichord music from the British Isles, and I find the Quint system is tickety-boo!

So, yes, enjoy playing what you play, and seek the system that suits your favoured music.

Good luck with the new accordion @stickista!

 

[stickista]

That's a nice looking box.

Is the LHS a converter, or purely fb? A converter on a box this size would be exceptional.

FB only. Single reed. Very much a jazz box. Very clean tone.

 

[bandoneon.hk]

I’ve been playing a CBA midi controller for for a few months that allows me to sit at it piano-style, and I’m loving the way it allows me to leverage my piano instincts by unifying my conceptual mental map into a single field.
After years of playing mirrored free bass, as all (?) C Griff instruments are, I’ve never really felt that I truly unified my hands the way I now feel it with my pinky playing the low roots.
In addition, age related shakiness in my left hands means I’m not doing a ton of complex melodic counterpoint on the left anyway. mostly bass notes and 1/7/3, 1/5/2 shell voicings and arpeggiations with a little countermovement. I just love the versatility that free bass gives me over stradella.
As an Accordina player who does really complex RH chordal arrangements, most of the action for me is in my right hand anyway, with the left playing a supporting role.

As a result, I’m taking the plunge and having my new Benetoux C griff accordion built Bayan style, with low notes towards the floor in the bass side.

Anyone (particularly B system players) have any thoughts on this?
I do understand that it means my heirs will be inheriting a virtually unsellable instrument.
But the musical fluency this has been giving me, at least on the midi controller, is really exciting.

I had a Bugari accordion which is C-system convertor and LH is low note at bottom. I was told Alain Abbott played similar LH low note at bottom and they called it Harmonium. then I bought a few of Alain Abbott sheets. but I was new to accordion and I couldn't find easy material to learn its fingering. at the end I sold it but then found another B system convertor. so I started learning it by material in https://ale07.ru/.

 

[Mike t.]

I don’t know if I read this right, but if a person could learn the left side with the buttons laid-out flat, so you could see your fingers move, while learning free bass, it would seem to me it would surely help my mind adjust to the actual playing of the real free bass accordion. Some kind of thin light-weight, table top, with a bunch of buttons programmable, cheap, hooked up to ear phones? Just a learning aid to speed up muscle memory.
The wait for your new accordion must fill your head! If it looks close the photo, it will be beautiful! What fun!

 

[JerryPH]

The best way to learn to skip rope is to skip rope, not watch someone skip rope or skipping rope while sitting in a chair. The best way to learn Free Bass, is to practice Free Bass on the Free Bass accordion wearing it. Muscle memory is best learned by playing on the real thing, that is my opinion. Start with the basics, scales, arpeggios, simple exercises that increase in complexity over time, that's how to best learn.

 

[stickista]

A nice piece in this instrument by Laurent Derache but standard C free bass, low at top.
Phone mic doesn’t do the instruments sound justice.
I consider it a rich baritone instrument and doesn’t try for earth shaking bass.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0UdfF7SKQXF1SadyBMEDVTSK7xfP5WJZ8Y8CG5pM5RbUAD7ExnMAULMW6BozZck3Wl&id=769920815

 

[John Doe]

The best way to learn Free Bass, is to practice Free Bass on the Free Bass accordion wearing it.

For "Free Bass" please subsitute pretty much anything.

Bayan, C griff, B griff, low notes on top, low notes on bottom, quint, install diatonic Bandoneon fingering, 23, 234, 2345, throw in the thumb on occasion...

Proficiency grows with familiarity which comes from doing something. And folks can use any system at all given enough time.



Reading (or posting) about it has a really minimal effect on actual perfomance.

 

[stickista]

Reading (or posting) about it has a really minimal effect on actual perfomance.

That’s an interestingly dismissive take on legitimate musical discussion.
There are significant considerations about whether using the stronger vs weaker fingers for bass vs melodic/harmonic articulation and input from others’ experience is invaluable.

 

[tcabot]

And folks can use any system at all given enough time.

Because we all have unlimited amount of time available to us.

 

[Dingo40]

I don’t know if I read this right, but if a person could learn the left side with the buttons laid-out flat, so you could see your fingers move, while learning free bass,

Try looking into a dressing table mirror (or similar) while reaching for the notes?