counter bass help -
#21
Hi Bob,

Agreed for the Dorian (jazz) minor, but the western traditional (classical) minor scale, so called harmonic minor, causes me to use my 5th.
Just wondered if there was a way out of this or that I should embrace it as an opportunity to learn?
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA
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#22
<QUOTE author="Glenn"><s>
Glenn Wrote:Hi Bob,

Just wondered if there was a way out of this or that I should embrace it as an opportunity to learn?

Is there any point in avoiding learning something? It’s whether you need to learn it right now.
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#23
Well, this is getting philosophical.

I don't have any thoughts about scales per se, but ... with the standard stradella bass/counterbass setup, I see people using their pinkies quite a bit for the minor third on the bass row. I believe it's the best you can do, for that note on that layout. If that's where the little finger comes in for that minor scale, then it does seem to me something worth embracing, on more than abstruse philosophical grounds.
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#24
Not that I say you shouldn't use your little fingers - but I don't use mine for left hand work. Right hand, yes. But on the left hand the ring finger has to substitute, because no.5 is a little crooked and lacks strength.
<URL url="http://jubjubceilidhband.co.uk/">The JubJub Ceilidh Band</URL> and <URL url="http://www.kirstenbaron.co.uk/">Me</URL>
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#25
Hi Anyanka; Don't let the lack of use of the 5th finger be of any serious concern. The stradella bass layout whether 80 - 96 - or 120 was originally designed for the use of the 2nd - 3rd - and 4th fingers. No pinkie - No thumb !! JIM D.
Owner & Operator "THE FISARMONICA SHOP" Chicopee, MA USA
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#26
This thread just goes to show that you should read everything here.

Been struggling with the jump from C to EMaj in a couple of tune I'm practising (Freight Train and Stand by your man)...the tip about using the E Counter Bass instead , makes life a whole lot easier with those tunes.
Next step is to move Stand by your man to G instead of C .....so far I have mostly stuck to the key of C because it's easy - time I guess to move on
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#27
<QUOTE author="donn"><s>
donn Wrote:Well, this is getting philosophical.

I don't have any thoughts about scales per se, but ... with the standard stradella bass/counterbass setup, I see people using their pinkies quite a bit for the minor third on the bass row. I believe it's the best you can do, for that note on that layout. If that's where the little finger comes in for that minor scale, then it does seem to me something worth embracing, on more than abstruse philosophical grounds.

You don’t have to use the 5th finger for a minor scale, if you start with 2 and end with a 4.
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#28
<QUOTE author="BobM"><s>
BobM Wrote:You don’t have to use the 5th finger for a minor scale, if you start with 2 and end with a 4.

Bob, can I be a pain in the proverbial and ask you to spell each note out as I find without 5th finger I have a very large stretch whatever way I go?
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA
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#29
<QUOTE author="Glenn"><s>
Glenn Wrote:<QUOTE author="BobM"><s>
BobM Wrote:You don’t have to use the 5th finger for a minor scale, if you start with 2 and end with a 4.

Bob, can I be a pain in the proverbial and ask you to spell each note out as I find without 5th finger I have a very large stretch whatever way I go?

My post above was about a minor scale with a Maj 7th, I should have been clearer. I’m not by an instrument until later today, and I want to be absolutely sure that before describing in print something that I do automatically is accurate.
But, a natural Minor scale should be just as easily played from a major position, there is some movement involved but it’s more of a “pivot” that a stretch.
I ended up with a 5th fingerless scale because I was joining up chords with short sections of scales which I then joined together to form a complete scale. I may in time include the 5, but I need to be putting in more time in on the RH at the moment, as I have (strangely) found the pattern based Stradella basses easier to get my head around.
<B><SIZE size="100"><FONT font="Arial">There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know..</FONT></SIZE></B>
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#30
It’s a sunny day out there, so briefly, my "default" Major scale is 4 2 cb3 4 2 4 cb3 4. For the Natural or Dorion minor in C, place the hand over the Bb scale and start on the second degree (which is C) with 2 and go up finishing on the C.
This is a useful fingering which can take you very close to the Dom7th scale as well.

If you haven’t printed out a Stradella chart yet I strongly advise to do so, the patterns will start to appear given a little time.
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#31
<QUOTE author="BobM"><s>
BobM Wrote:It’s a sunny day out there, so briefly, my "default" Major scale is 4 2 cb3 4 2 4 cb3 4. For the Natural or Dorion minor in C, place the hand over the Bb scale and start on the second degree (which is C) with 2 and go up finishing on the C.
This is a useful fingering which can take you very close to the Dom7th scale as well.

If you haven’t printed out a Stradella chart yet I strongly advise to do so, the patterns will start to appear given a little time.



Now I know that I lack in the technical proficiency department......but furthermore it seems due to complete bewilderment setting in that I am a complete buffoon at the theory side as well !.....................

Bob where can I look some of this stuff up at a duffers speed ?..................................................got my Stradella down pat....and a circle of fifths diagram on the desktop, which I find is a Stradella shorthand.......I must dig out my Mighty Accordion book after our move "oop north"......I am clearly missing something here...


Cheers

Chris
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#32
<QUOTE author="jarvo"><s>
jarvo Wrote:Now I know that I lack in the technical proficiency department......but furthermore it seems due to complete bewilderment setting in that I am a complete buffoon at the theory side as well !.....................

Bob where can I look some of this stuff up at a duffers speed ?..................................................got my Stradella down pat....and a circle of fifths diagram on the desktop, which I find is a Stradella shorthand.......I must dig out my Mighty Accordion book after our move "oop north"......I am clearly missing something here...


Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris,

“If a picture paints a thousand word etc etc..” I could really show you in minutes. I’m afraid the written word is not my strongest medium, but there are <U><s>many ways</U> to play scales on the Stradella. Some which favour being played on their own, but which may end up on a difficult finger to continue a rhythm with, and conversely, a fingering which is good to combine with a rhythm but could be clumsy on it’s own.
I do use my 5th finger but not usually (at the moment) for scales, but having been a bassist (Double and Electric) for over 40 years I don’t have much trouble with the idea of pivoting my left hand, and I’ll <U><s>always</U> try to play the kind of chord sequence that a colleague wouldn’t grimace at..

“The Mighty Accordion” is a good book, but stops short of putting the information into any useful context, like a “Saints” chord sequence, “Bill Bailey” or “No Place like Home”, Danny Boy etc, They may not seem to be relevant to some British Trad players but the chord changes are universal, try playing them in as many keys as possible and different styles.

But, take your time, enjoy the ride, and in the absence of a good accordion teacher, a well regarded piano teacher may help, especially if you take the “TMA” book with you.

Lunchtime!

BobM.
<B><SIZE size="100"><FONT font="Arial">There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know..</FONT></SIZE></B>
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#33
Enjoy!
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#34
I think the bass chart is very confusing because it is laid out the opposite way you play it. I fixed that problem by reversing it and it works so much better for me. If I knew how to get a picture on this site I would post it. My instructor actually made a copy for one of his other students!
60 bass Saltarelle " Clifden"
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#35
Hi Jackie,

Just click "post reply" and at the bottom is a tab which says upload attachment. That's the place to look.
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA
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#36
<QUOTE author="Jackie"><s>
Jackie Wrote:If I knew how to get a picture on this site I would post it. My instructor actually made a copy for one of his other students!
And note the size limitations - if it's not loading it maybe 'cos your pics too big! It comes back and tells you the max allowance - I agree it seem a little remiss not to state them beforehand but they are 1024 wide x 764 pixels high.
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#37
Thanks Glenn, I may try it and see what happens.
60 bass Saltarelle " Clifden"
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#38
This is partly just to check and see if answers to older posts will show up in the "Latest Posts" section.
However, since I'm a pianist, my goal is to think of a note in the Stradella bass and be able to hit it, whether bass or counter bass.
Bugari “Blue 72”, Tiger Combo ‘Cordeon, Iorio Concert Accorgan G Series (electronics removed)
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#39
From accordionwise.com

   
Bugari “Blue 72”, Tiger Combo ‘Cordeon, Iorio Concert Accorgan G Series (electronics removed)
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#40
I'm with Jackie (from 6 years ago) - the typical Stradella bass chart seems reversed to me, I guess because it's drawn from the perspective of the other side.  Though I can't actually see it from where I am, the mental image is formed from the perspective I would have if I could see it, with X-ray vision through the accordion.

Also, a day or two ago I hit on an improvement to a tune I've been playing for, I don't know, maybe a year.
   

That 3rd measure (as it appears here, of course it's in the middle of the tune somewhere and I play it in another key) had been kind of a head-scratcher. The simplest thing would be to stay on the F (IV), which is not dissonant but pretty lame. Am (III) works, but seems sort of over-wrought or something, and with the E 2ndary bass this C (I) makes a more dissonant variation on Am that relates back to the preceding C ... or something like that. Really I have no idea, and the moral of the story seems to be, if you don't know what to use those extra buttons for, just keep poking at them and something will turn up!

And offer stands - if there's some way to apply a utility program to all the old posts, I will write up something that will fix 90% of the the migration manglings.
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