C system CBA convertor, 64/106 58/120
#21
<QUOTE author="debra" post_id="54924" time="1517393640" user_id="605"><s>
debra post_id=54924 time=1517393640 user_id=605 Wrote:<QUOTE author="Geronimo" post_id="54885" time="1517343431" user_id="2623"><s>
Geronimo post_id=54885 time=1517343431 user_id=2623 Wrote:...
Also odd given full 120 bass buttons. However, the innards show <I><s>14</I> bass reeds in the Winkelbaß. Assuming an Italian standard bass configuration starting at A1, this would make the free bass start at G1, missing the customary E1, F1, and F♯1. That would be consistent with 55 notes in the converter and would suggest a standard bass layout that's less affected by having to double as converter than other instruments.
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For instance, the Bugari 580/ARS/C is a popular model with 61 notes on the treble side (3 more than the 58 notes it used to have some years ago) and it has 55 notes on the bass side, E to A#.
Ok, that actual point of data makes it more likely that the 3 notes are missing on the top. I was just working entirely from thin air here.
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#22
<QUOTE author="Geronimo" post_id="54927" time="1517396013" user_id="2623"><s>
Geronimo post_id=54927 time=1517396013 user_id=2623 Wrote:...
Ok, that actual point of data makes it more likely that the 3 notes are missing on the top. I was just working entirely from thin air here.

It may sound counterintuitive when you consider what manufacturers do.
Every 64/58 accordion will have E to G on the treble side and E to C# on the bass side. But once either the left or right hand has a different number of notes, all bets are off. Still when the bass has fewer notes, serious instruments will start with E (but small student models won't), and a typical accordion with 58 notes on the right hand will <B><s>not</B> have the same E to C# like the bass side but will likely have G to E. Once you go below that again all bets are off. Bugari and Pigini for instance both make almost identical instruments (Bugari is the 540) with 52 notes on the RH and the Bugari does C# to E whereas the Pigini does E to G. Go figure. (But you can also get the C# to E from Pigini if you ask for it.)
Another thing is that a typical Italian CBA will have LM on the melody bas with L and M also available separately, whereas a bayan starts with LM but then goes up in LL meaning the actual highest note on the bass side is an octave lower than the highest note on an Italian CBA. (But careful with Italian "bayan" models because some are LM and some are LL...)
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#23
<QUOTE author="debra" post_id="54966" time="1517483219" user_id="605"><s>
debra post_id=54966 time=1517483219 user_id=605 Wrote:Another thing is that a typical Italian CBA will have LM on the melody bas with L and M also available separately, whereas a bayan starts with LM but then goes up in LL meaning the actual highest note on the bass side is an octave lower than the highest note on an Italian CBA. (But careful with Italian "bayan" models because some are LM and some are LL...)
Actual highest note on the bass side once you register only M (at least outside of the bass octave). On my own instrument, I only have L or LM available outside of the bass octave (there L and M can be separately switched on/off). But registering M alone is not something I have missed there so far. Similar to using just H in the right hand, the sound quality of a lone piccolo reed is not compelling and thus the temptation for using it low. This may be different on double cassotto instruments where H is your sole option outside.
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#24
<QUOTE author="Geronimo" post_id="54967" time="1517483698" user_id="2623"><s>
Geronimo post_id=54967 time=1517483698 user_id=2623 Wrote:Actual highest note on the bass side once you register only M (at least outside of the bass octave). On my own instrument, I only have L or LM available outside of the bass octave (there L and M can be separately switched on/off). But registering M alone is not something I have missed there so far. Similar to using just H in the right hand, the sound quality of a lone piccolo reed is not compelling and thus the temptation for using it low. This may be different on double cassotto instruments where H is your sole option outside.

Very true: very high notes are seldom played with the left hand.
But I have actually made use of their existence in my my adaptation of an arrangement of the Second Hungarian Rhapsody by Liszt which requires a very high constant C to be played for 17 measures... The arrangement I got required more players (only using the treble side) than we had so I had to move something to the left hand, but although most of us had converters at the time we were not very good using them. A long high note however, that we could easily do.
I sometimes do make use of the bass side in arrangements for quintet or for orchestra, and I also play in the Nederlands Symfonisch Accordeon Orkest and the conductor also makes use of the left hand side in his arrangements, not just for low notes but also to divide up difficult parts between left and right hand to make them "easier"...
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#25
Indeed, that would seem to be a good candidate. 55 LH notes would be fine as long as they begin at E1. If this is the case the main challenge would be mitigating risk in the transaction from abroad.

As the large range (both LH and RH) as well as the ability in the LH to use L and M independently has become somewhat standardized in classical accordion, composers often use the full range, and many contemporary pieces call especially for extremes in register for their textural effectiveness.
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#26
<QUOTE author="Dogue" post_id="54970" time="1517484913" user_id="2685"><s>
Dogue post_id=54970 time=1517484913 user_id=2685 Wrote:Indeed, that would seem to be a good candidate. 55 LH notes would be fine as long as they begin at E1. If this is the case the main challenge would be mitigating risk in the transaction from abroad.
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Given the price of the instrument (almost too good to be true) it may be worth going on a trip to collect the accordion. No idea how far away it is for you.

The other thing to check is whether the tuning is what you want. Pigini uses 442Hz as its default, instead of the international standard of 440Hz. You need to know which tuning you want so you can then check whether it is right or not. Changing the tuning on such a large instrument is a lot of work (meaning expensive).
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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