How to Program MIDI out message on Roland
#1
I am trying to learn my new (to me) Roland FR-7 and am attempting to use it with an Orla XM-500 arranger module. I don't have a manual for the Orla, but it seems to be understanding the bellows pressure messages as well as the touch sensitivity from the Roland. Is there a way to disable these features either on the Roland (message sent out) or on the Orla (message received)? I would rather that my MIDI bass notes on the Orla not rely on bellows pressure. There must be a way to do this, but I am having trouble without the Orla XM-500 manual. I was able to adjust the MIDI out channels on the Roland just fine, and I am wondering if bellows pressure and touch sensitivity are automatic messages sent out from the controller. Any advice is appreciated.
Reply
#2
(24-02-2019, 08:14 PM)AccordionTop126 Wrote: I am trying to learn my new (to me) Roland FR-7 and am attempting to use it with an Orla XM-500 arranger module. I don't have a manual for the Orla, but it seems to be understanding the bellows pressure messages as well as the touch sensitivity from the Roland. Is there a way to disable these features either on the Roland (message sent out) or on the Orla (message received)? I would rather that my MIDI bass notes on the Orla not rely on bellows pressure. There must be a way to do this, but I am having trouble without the Orla XM-500 manual. I was able to adjust the MIDI out channels on the Roland just fine, and I am wondering if bellows pressure and touch sensitivity are automatic messages sent out from the controller. Any advice is appreciated.

I am also having a hard time figuring out how to disable the program changes that cause the MIDI instruments to  change on the Orla module when I activate a register switch on the Roland. I would like to control the Orla voices on the module only. I tried turning off the program change parameters in the Roland's MIDI menu, but it didn't fix my problem. I would like the Roland to act like an acoustic accordion when I change registers, without affecting the Orla voices.
Reply
#3
I found an Orla XM500 manual online. It looks like the Orla unit has some settings to configure the module to respond to messages sent out from various controllers, including a Roland, which appears at factory default to send out messages on different channels than a simple 3-channel MIDI accordion. I can also switch the MIDI expression messages off. The MIDI R2 02 is the correct setting, and will prevent the Roland register switches from changing the Orla voices. Since I am the only one who replied to my own thread, is this the same as talking to myself?  ?
Reply
#4
If there are any MIDI experts on the forum, I would love to hear from you. I gave up trying to get the Roland FR-7 to operate correctly with my Orla XM-500 module. Even though the manual said that "FR type" accordions could be used, the module did not respond correctly to the Roland MIDI messages. Today, I tried my Roland RA-800 module, thinking that it would work better (same manufacturer, after all). I was able to disable the bellows sensitivity and touch sensitivity, but I am still unable to prevent the register switches on the V-accordion from changing the tones on the Roland RA-800. I need to somehow disable whatever tone change message is being broadcast by the accordion, or prevent this message from being interpreted by the arranger module. I would like to change my treble and bass register switches for a different virtual accordion sound without automatically selecting "honky-tonk piano" on the arranger module. I can't find anything in the manuals indicating how to accomplish this but it seems like there should be a simple on/off in one of the electronic menus. Any ideas?
Reply
#5
I spent the evening learning how to adjust the midi messages within the "sets", or virtual accordions within the Roland FR-7. According to the manual, if I turn the program change message to "off", this is supposed to prevent a register change from transmitting through the MIDI out port on the Roland FR-7. I switched the message off on every register switch (treble side, bass notes and bass chords). The result was that the very first time I push a register switch, the Roland FR-7 sends a Program Change 001 message to the Roland RA-800 and switches the tone to Piano 1. After that, the switches have no effect. If I change the tones on the module again, the same thing happens. This is extremely frustrating. If I program a controller to not send a message, why is a program change being sent to the module?
Reply
#6
Hi. Maybe worth connecting your fr7 to a PC and recording exactly what midi stream is being transmitted. I would have thought there would be a global setting rather than one at the sets level. This is true of the fr8x in any case.
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA
Reply
#7
(27-02-2019, 08:10 AM)Glenn Wrote: Hi. Maybe worth connecting your fr7 to a PC and recording exactly what midi stream is being transmitted. I would have thought there would be a global setting rather than one at the sets level. This is true of the fr8x in any case.

Hi Glenn,
That is good advice. I will have to get an interface for my PC. What is maddening is that I even adjusted both the FX and TX program change parameters on the Roland RA-800 to "off", and this has no effect. According to the manual, this is supposed to prevent the message from being received and processed on the module. I must be even dumber than I look.
Reply
#8
(27-02-2019, 12:17 PM)AccordionTop126 Wrote:
(27-02-2019, 08:10 AM)Glenn Wrote: Hi. Maybe worth connecting your fr7 to a PC and recording exactly what midi stream is being transmitted. I would have thought there would be a global setting rather than one at the sets level. This is true of the fr8x in any case.

Hi Glenn,
That is good advice. I will have to get an interface for my PC. What is maddening is that I even adjusted both the FX and TX program change parameters on the Roland RA-800 to "off", and this has no effect. According to the manual, this is supposed to prevent the message from being received and processed on the module. I must be even dumber than I look.
There are many so-called midi monitors available for PCs and Macs.  One of the most flexible is a program written for Windows 95 but should still work under any Windows OS released since then.  It's called MidiOX and when last I checked it was a free download.  
I also know that the 4x can turn off several types of midi message transmissions, but I plead ignorance of anything to do with the FR7.  That being said, if it turns out that midi messages cannot be controlled to the user's satisfaction from the accordion or the module, there is still a device that can accomplish this with a minimum of programming.  I refer to the Event Processor (or the Event Processor Plus, if needed) made by a company called Midi Solutions.  These devices require no external power source.  They are inserted into the midi chain between the accordion and the module and derive their power from the midi chain.  They can be programmed to filter out or change any midi message and the program resides in non-volatile memory in the device until it is changed or deleted by the user.  The app needed to program them can be obtained as a free download on the Midi Solutions website.

I hope this helps.

Alan Sharkis
Reply
#9
Thank you Alan. I appreciate your advice and will look into that device. It seems like there is still a program change occurring that I am missing. I wish I was more experienced wth MIDI.
Reply
#10
I am happy to report that I solved my problem. It is good that I have a collection of MIDI arranger modules, because I found that the Orla XM-900 DLX was able to cooperate with my Roland FR-7 V-Accordion and do what I wanted. I am now able to change register switches on the Roland and not affect the Orla module. My Roland V-Accordion now acts like a basic acoustic accordion with MIDI. On this module, I am able to select the parameters for each voice layer, and switch the incoming program change messages (tone selection) and control change messages (bellows sensitivity) off when I connect the accordion into the MIDI2 Keyboard channel MIDI input. This is the only module I have tried so far that is able to ignore the program change messages from the Roland FR-7, even though I turned off the program changes in the global settings on the accordion. 
It is interesting to note that the newer, Orla XM-500 does not provide the same options (I wish it did, since I love being able to run my Band-in-a Box backing tracks through that arranger using a USB). I am amazed that I could not get my Roland module to work, since this appears to have even more settings and adjustments, and it is from the same manufacturer as the accordion.
I like being able to add and layer even more sounds using the arranger modules. I will next try my Orla XM-600, and my Roland RA-90 and see if I can get those modules to work.
Reply
#11
So what did you end up doing, were the changes done on the accordion side or the XM-900 side? When I was trying to get the Ketron X4 to do nothing but follow along with chord changes, on a FR-8X it was just one basic parameter change and it worked exactly as you said you wanted it to act, like an old MIDI accordion connected to a module.

I know its not of much use now, but in the FR-8X MENU 16.4 – set ALL PARTS to OFF to prevent other sections of the V-accordion from sending volume information to the BK-7m/X4 or changing registers on the .BK-7m
___________________________________________________________

My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com
Reply
#12
(01-03-2019, 10:18 AM)JerryPH Wrote: So what did you end up doing, were the changes done on the accordion side or the XM-900 side?  When I was trying to get the Ketron X4 to do nothing but follow along with chord changes, on a FR-8X it was just one basic parameter change and it worked exactly as you said you wanted it to act, like an old MIDI accordion connected to a module.

I know its not of much use now, but in the FR-8X MENU 16.4 – set ALL PARTS to OFF to prevent other sections of the V-accordion from sending volume information to the BK-7m/X4 or changing registers on the .BK-7m
All changes were done on the Orla XM-900 module. I was able to disable the RX (receive) messages in the module's memory. For some reason, this same setting didn't work on the Roland RA-800 module. As I said, the Orla XM-500 doesn't appear to have the same RX /TX switching options of the older Orla module. I still don't understand why the TX (send) message is still transmitting from the accordion when I switched the Program Change parameters to off in the global menu. I did ensure that the save was completed using the write feature. I can only assume it is a software issue. The new Roland FR-8x must have overcome these challenges. I can't afford new gear, so I am usually having my fun with older equipment that I find used.
Reply


Forum Jump: