4 row c system wanted
#21
(06-09-2019, 12:13 PM)Pipemajor Wrote: The buttons on these Paolos just screw in to the post. It could be that it is "cross threaded" and could easily be straightened.
I have a similar one although it is LMM and 100 bass but quite a few of my buttons were a bit wonky and all straightened up by unscrewing them and refitting.
On a totally different track, I've noticed that on Le Bon Coin and French E-Bay, Paolo Soprani accordions are invariably much cheaper that other Italian and French makes. I can understand the French makes being more expensive as the French do like to buy their own home products, but I don't understand why the Paolos should be cheaper than an equivalent model other Italian accordion.
I also have an 80 bass 3 row MM Maugein which is of far inferior quality of construction to the Paolo so I don't think it is a quality problem.

Thanks for the comments Pipemajor. The misaligned button you mentioned is not a problem for me and easily rectified.
It is a 3 voice mmm (rear cuplers) and has an acceptable sound, although I may well get it tuned as and when it's convenient.
I think you are spot on about the build quality of older Paolo's, they are wonderfully built, even compared to my Crucianelli which is also a lovely accordion.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
A long road travelled-made easier by carrying a box.
Reply
#22
(06-09-2019, 02:21 PM)Orma Wrote:
(06-09-2019, 12:13 PM)Pipemajor Wrote: The buttons on these Paolos just screw in to the post. It could be that it is "cross threaded" and could easily be straightened.
I have a similar one although it is LMM and 100 bass but quite a few of my buttons were a bit wonky and all straightened up by unscrewing them and refitting.
On a totally different track, I've noticed that on Le Bon Coin and French E-Bay, Paolo Soprani accordions are invariably much cheaper that other Italian and French makes. I can understand the French makes being more expensive as the French do like to buy their own home products, but I don't understand why the Paolos should be cheaper than an equivalent model other Italian accordion.
I also have an 80 bass 3 row MM Maugein which is of far inferior quality of construction to the Paolo so I don't think it is a quality problem.

Thanks for the comments Pipemajor. The misaligned button you mentioned is not a problem for me and easily rectified.
It is a 3 voice mmm (rear cuplers) and has an acceptable sound, although I may well get it tuned as and when it's convenient.
I think you are spot on about the build quality of older Paolo's, they are wonderfully built, even compared to my Crucianelli which is also a lovely accordion.

I've never lived in France, but Paolo Soprani boxes never seem to have caught on with the big name musette players there. Paul Beuscher's own brand accordions were made by them at one time, but they obviously never had the Paolo Soprani name on them. 

The only pro musette player I can remember who used a Paolo was Augusto Baldi. Unfortunately he made a whole album with a Paolo made Beuscher that had tuning issues, and that did the make no favours at all.  

He was a comical little character who sometimes wore a big black Napoleonic type hat. His Paolos sounded like this (when they were in tune). Old fashioned musette at its best, before they made it too difficult for people like me to play. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ahtqqw...3&index=28

Here is a pic of him with his Paolo Soprani built Paul Beuscher that needed attention. I haven't been able to find a photo of him playing a box with the Soprani logo on it:-

   

As far as Italian boxes in France go, as Pipe Major says there is a tendency to buy local, but my own experience is that Italian made instruments are definitely more solidly built. Cavagnolo have the lion's share in France, but some of the boxes they were turning out in the mid 80s were pretty awful. I had a "Bal musette" model, which I bought new. The entire 4th row was about 3mm too close to the 3rd row, which made playing difficult, and the bass mechanism was of poor quality metal that was too soft for the job. The bellows had a flaw in one of the folds, but apart from that it was OK, as the saying goes.
Reply
#23
(06-09-2019, 03:07 PM)maugein96 Wrote:
(06-09-2019, 02:21 PM)Orma Wrote:
(06-09-2019, 12:13 PM)Pipemajor Wrote: The buttons on these Paolos just screw in to the post. It could be that it is "cross threaded" and could easily be straightened.
I have a similar one although it is LMM and 100 bass but quite a few of my buttons were a bit wonky and all straightened up by unscrewing them and refitting.
On a totally different track, I've noticed that on Le Bon Coin and French E-Bay, Paolo Soprani accordions are invariably much cheaper that other Italian and French makes. I can understand the French makes being more expensive as the French do like to buy their own home products, but I don't understand why the Paolos should be cheaper than an equivalent model other Italian accordion.
I also have an 80 bass 3 row MM Maugein which is of far inferior quality of construction to the Paolo so I don't think it is a quality problem.

Thanks for the comments Pipemajor. The misaligned button you mentioned is not a problem for me and easily rectified.
It is a 3 voice mmm (rear cuplers) and has an acceptable sound, although I may well get it tuned as and when it's convenient.
I think you are spot on about the build quality of older Paolo's, they are wonderfully built, even compared to my Crucianelli which is also a lovely accordion.

I've never lived in France, but Paolo Soprani boxes never seem to have caught on with the big name musette players there. Paul Beuscher's own brand accordions were made by them at one time, but they obviously never had the Paolo Soprani name on them. 

The only pro musette player I can remember who used a Paolo was Augusto Baldi. Unfortunately he made a whole album with a Paolo made Beuscher that had tuning issues, and that did the make no favours at all.  

He was a comical little character who sometimes wore a big black Napoleonic type hat. His Paolos sounded like this (when they were in tune). Old fashioned musette at its best, before they made it too difficult for people like me to play. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ahtqqw...3&index=28

Here is a pic of him with his Paolo Soprani built Paul Beuscher that needed attention. I haven't been able to find a photo of him playing a box with the Soprani logo on it:-



As far as Italian boxes in France go, as Pipe Major says there is a tendency to buy local, but my own experience is that Italian made instruments are definitely more solidly built. Cavagnolo have the lion's share in France, but some of the boxes they were turning out in the mid 80s were pretty awful. I had a "Bal musette" model, which I bought new. The entire 4th row was about 3mm too close to the 3rd row, which made playing difficult, and the bass mechanism was of poor quality metal that was too soft for the job. The bellows had a flaw in one of the folds, but apart from that it was OK, as the saying goes.

Very interesting comments maugein96.

The soundtrack of the musette tuning makes me realise that I should eventually get my new box tuned, although it is acceptable at the moment. 

As ever it's all about priorities.
A long road travelled-made easier by carrying a box.
Reply
#24
(06-09-2019, 04:50 PM)Orma Wrote: Very interesting comments maugein96.

The soundtrack of the musette tuning makes me realise that I should eventually get my new box tuned, although it is acceptable at the moment. 

As ever it's all about priorities.

The tuning in that track is the old "musette pur" which was how it was when accordionists began to move across from the earlier type of accordions used in French musette. They were diatonics with strong musette tuning (high M reeds 20 cents plus), and that tuning was simply transposed to the chromatic button accordions that replaced them. The boxes were nearly all MMM, and some of them had no couplers to select any other combination. 

Once elements of jazz and swing crept into the mix, often brought there by players of other instruments keen to capitalise on the popularity of the accordion between the two world wars, MMM boxes were often then considered a bit too coarse for anything but open air "bals","guingettes", and "galas". People like Marcel Azzola, who had been a violinist, just didn't like musette tuning, and he and several others set about developing the accordion into an instrument of refinement rather than of the rough and ready bals musette. 

Many disagreed with him, but nevertheless the MMM was ultimately knocked off its pedestal (in France) by the smoother, jazzier LMM, often with the bassoon reeds in a tone chamber. However, to this day some people love MMM, and wouldn't play anything else. It's not old fashioned or anything else. It's just a tuning that is still preferred, and indeed required, by some genres.   

It seems that MMM has continued to be the box of choice for players in certain regions of France to this day, but the most commonly encountered standard French accordion is usually LMM. The tendency for French players to play in a standing position means that 4 and 5 voice boxes are only for weightlifters and classical players!

There's probably nothing wrong with the tuning of your accordion. It will just sound different from the box in the clip, and just about every other MMM accordion out there. It is very hard to find two with precisely the same tuning. They all seem to have their own "musette fingerprint."
Reply
#25
Hello again,

The guy who made a big stamp on the world of musette after CBA replaced the diatonics was Emile Prud'homme.

Here he is on what could be another Paul Beuscher, although I believe the box in the recording is a Crosio. 

Verchuren was probably the best known French accordionist ever, but he often branched out into accordion "pop".

Mimile was probably the best known "musette pur" accordionist in France after the founder of musette, Emile Vacher. 

The technique he possessed was phenomenal, as demonstrated here.

The music sounds pretty basic, but I would ask any of the accordion purists with all the diplomas to try and nail this one the way he does it. The fact that most of them wouldn't even be interested is neither here nor there. 

This is French musette, as it was intended to be, bird whistles the lot! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T-KY0LGW9E

Compare the tuning with this one from Emile Vacher, the founder of the genre. The musette tuning was watered down a bit by the time Emile Prud'homme was recording. The long draws at the end of the phrases were one of the reasons people thought the tuning needed tamed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3osAWyo4VG8
Reply
#26
RThanks Maugein,!
Informative and entertaining, as always: great clips! Smile
Reply
#27
(07-09-2019, 10:03 AM)Dingo40 Wrote: RThanks Maugein,!
Informative and entertaining, as always: great clips! Smile

My new Paolo has a few minor issues with tuning as is evident during the push and pull on the same button. It is however a stunning box nevertheless.

As ever, more good information and music clips maugein96.
A long road travelled-made easier by carrying a box.
Reply
#28
With regard to the Paul Buescher branded accordions, my Paolo Soprani was bought in France and has the normal Paolo Soprani logo on the front but also has a small plate on the rear with the Paul Buescher name and a Paris address,
It also has the couplers on the front and bellows straps as per non French market accordions. Yet another exception to the norm.
Reply
#29
(07-09-2019, 11:13 AM)Pipemajor Wrote: With regard to the Paul Buescher branded accordions, my Paolo Soprani was bought in France and has the normal Paolo Soprani  logo on the front but also has a small plate on the rear with the Paul Buescher name and a Paris  address,
It also has the couplers on the front and bellows straps as per non French market accordions. Yet another exception to the norm.

Hi Pipemajor,

I never knew the situation with Paul Beuscher instruments until I read an article about them in a (the) French accordion magazine. You may have seen it on your travels in France, but it went out of production some years ago. 

Rear mounted treble couplers were actually invented in northern Italy, and Cavagnolo brought that construction method with them when they moved to France. A few Italian virtuosi CBA players make good use of front mounted couplers to perform lighting quick register changes on the fly, that would be nigh on impossible with rear mounted versions.  

I remember the staff in Jimmy Clinkscale's shop in Melrose hated the rear mounted couplers, but I suppose it's just what you're used to. 

Crosio sent a lot of boxes with front treble couplers and bellows straps, of all things, to France for a time. The make soared in popularity in the days of Verchuren and Aimable, and apparently demand exceeded supply of the French assembled models. You couldn't imagine that today.
Reply


Forum Jump: