Live and Loud - Feedback Please
#81
(07-02-2020, 08:50 AM)Mr Mark Wrote: ...
I took the replacement mics in with the originals to have them swapped out to a reputable person.  The nature of the work was a little more complex than simple soldering as these components need to be bent into place through some plastic connector bits.

I got them back today and only 2 out of 6 of them work  Sad .  None of the bass mics and only the two middle treble mics.

I don't know if the mics are at fault or if this is a poor soldering job.
...

There are much better systems like AZS and Harmonik, but they are really expensive.
The Microvox system I have been using successfully is a nice compromise between having good mics, not too much trouble with feedback and nothing to be installed inside the accordion.
But when things matter less, the cheap microphone system I got from carinidena.it actually works very well too. It does require installation inside, but it performs very well. In our orchestra we use it on the two bass accordions and we get great sound.
There are several systems that do work well, but finding them can be a bit of trial and error. Sorry to hear you ended up on the "error side" of that equation.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#82
(28-01-2020, 03:45 PM)Mr Mark Wrote: There is no indication anywhere of what these components are, not even on the pictures on ebay.

I took mine apart today and the bigger one is marked 'CZ034'

fairly common by the looks of Google
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#83
There's a data sheet for the CZ034 here: http://ozeas.sdb.cz/panska/1A/E_laborato...krofon.pdf
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#84
When you browse around you will find a lot of these with similar dimensions peaking at about 110db SPL.

For instance: this

There are more expensive ones with 3 pins, that go higher than 140db but I doubt those are used in this mic kit..

That said: I doubt you can play your accordion at 110db. What is that, a jet taking off? Theoretically this SPL might not be the cause of all this...
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#85
I still do not know the cause of the distorting mics.  I do know the smaller mics had fixed the problem temporarily.

I got them back yesterday and the reason only 2 out of 6 worked after the first repair/replacement was because the person doing the soldering did not check polarity first (and there is no indication on the mics themselves).

When I got home before installing I did a quick test and found that already one of the freshly soldered joints had failed.  So I fought with it and got it resoldered and it is still working hooray.

Unfortunately the bass mics have both fallen off where they were attached.  They were working briefly but one solder joint failed on its own (just from moving around and playing).  When that occurred I had the idea to relocate the remaining mic to the centre of the reeds (because being located at one end produced substantial (easily noticeable) differences in volume depending upon how close the reeds are to the mic) but unfortunately in doing so the other mic has become detached as well.  The solder connections are so damn finnicky it is damn near impossible to have this happen...

So I just hope the remaining treble ones do not fail.  Maybe I can get the bass ones resoldered but I am not sure there is any point because I cannot get a useable level of volume (too quiet or too loud depending upon how far the reeds are from the mic).

At the end of the day this treble configuration works, clear sound, no distortion and so far minimal feedback...and no annoying hiss.  I have band rehearsal later today so we shall experience a real live test for once, but I am hopeful.  I just hope the rest of the solder joints do not fail.

I think I am beyond 3 months of getting my money back at this point.  I am disappointed on the lack of explanation why the first mics were problematic.  I had to shell out even more cash to get the replacements fixed and even that only worked part way...part of which may be the fault of the repair person but how am I to know and what recourse do I have.  At the very least this person reckognized the error in polarity and did not charge me for the second round of repairs.



I do know that after four different microphone setups I still do not have something that is fully functional...and no longer have the resources to pursue this - being; time, money and energy.  I also do not have the trust - three manufacturers have let me down and two accordion repair shops locally have let me down.  There are definitely lessons to be learned here for anyone reading.  Namely, buy $omething that works out of the box, and don't underestimate the sheer complexity of accordion microphones - it can be an absolute nightmare.


Thanks everyone for trying to help.
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#86
Mark... I am sorry to read all this. Really, it is NOT supposed to be as difficult as what you went through. I feel that maybe you were the victim of a comedy of errors.

The basics of making an electret mic function is technical child's play, however it seems that you started off with a defective unit and went downhill from there by introducing incredibly incompetent repairers and disreputable sellers. Why would a solder joint break and cause the mic to fall off in the first place is clear evidence of this... on top of all the other things that you went through!

I started to do some research and pricing to make my own kit years ago (http://syner-g.no-ip.biz/mymusic/custom-...ic-system/), but in the end, since I don't use that accordion for live gigs, decided to go the route of external high end condenser mics, which give best quality sound possible for my needs and I still may one day yet undertake such a project as it is not all that expensive to purcahse the parts and I would actually find it fund to see what I could do with the sum of well under $150... I bet many would be surprised.
___________________________________________________________

My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com
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