¿How do I interpret the tuning of my accordion?

[Rafael]

I recently bought a petosa sm 300 accordion (3/4 LMM). However, when reviewing its tuning and tremolo through various applications, it is not clear to me how to interpret the results. On the one hand, when you open the bellows the tuning appears at 440. 6 Hz and 2. 5 cents. On the other hand, when closing, the tuning is 441.8 hz and 7.1 cents. Is this normal? Shouldn't it be the same tuning and cents opening and closing? On the other hand, I want to have a warmer sound, so I'm thinking of asking the tuner to go up to 12 cents. Do you think it's a good tremolo for Latin American, European and American popular music? Should I ask the tuner to do something about the hz variation when opening and closing? Thank you very much for your feedback

 

[boxplayer4000]

Rafael:
The accordion must come near the top of the list of musical instruments in how its tuning is affected by climate and environment. Night-time, daytime, temperatures, humidity, central heating (probably not in Mexico) etc. etc. all cause the tuning to vary greatly.
One of the differences between a good quality accordion and one of lesser quality is that the better quality ones cope with those temperature/environmental differences better.
Professional performers, before a performance, usually expose and play their instrument in the room/hall etc. where the performance is going to be made to ’stabilise’ the tuning before a performance.
In theory the tuning of the inside reeds should be the same as the outside ones but you might well find that the differences will reduce after the accordion has been played for a while.
Modern tuning meters are good, accurate and readily available. However their accuracy can lead us to think there’s problems where there is not.
I know I’ll get picked up on this point but most accordions, over most of their treble range, will sound quite acceptable with a few +/- 2 cents variations, maybe more at the lower notes and less at the extreme top.

 

[debra]

First of all, unless you have an application like Dirk's accordion tuner (which can measure two reeds as well and show the tremolo) you should measure each reed individually. The tuning of each reed should be the same on pull and push and the tremolo reed should have the same deviation on pull and push. When you buy a used accordion that has not been tuned very recently by a good professional tuner you will find that it is out of tune. It doesn't matter which brand or model accordion you buy, all of them will be out of tune.
The standard tremolo for American music is 10 cents (which is why 10 cents tremolo is called "American"). But you should get the accordion tuned to your liking, not to any standard someone says you should use. 12 cents sounds nice to me but not to others. It is all very personal. Some people want upwards of 25 cents tremolo of more and preferably MMM tuned -25/0/+25 (I guess to guarantee the audience gets a splitting headache within 30 minutes or less)...

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

If you are able to post a recording of the A4 in the MM register, I can tell you the pitch values.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Dirk's Tuner is excellent but expensive and only works on limited platforms.
Bill Farmer's Audio Tuner is free and works on many platforms, including an android mobile, and can read more than one reed at a time.
We're overwhelmed with technology, it seems, and it's easy to forget that it's our ear which is the final judge.

I recommend Raphael takes up Big Squeeze Accordions offer. A sound sample of three or four notes across the keyboard will likely reveal
the tuning. The fact that the accordion in question is LMM makes the task even easier.

 

[Rafael]

If you are able to post a recording of the A4 in the MM register, I can tell you the pitch values.

Thanks a lot. At this time I do not have the accordion, as I decided to send it to a local professional tuner to have it adjusted.

 

[RTW]

As an observation on tuning, I respect and admire those experts on this site with recommendations on how to tune an accordion. That said, as a player, I would never delve into or attempt to tune it myself and would leave it up to a qualified tuner with a known reputation that I see as surgical in nature - in my geo location that would be JIM. Furthermore, there may be other things that require attention Not audible to the player as well. However, those with an interest could work as an apprentice that I'm sure would be welcomed to transfer the skill to a new generation!
Regards,
RTW

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

To establish the reference pitch you need to switch to a single reed (L or M), and measure that. Unless it's a long way out of tune mostly you will get a consistent reading (it may vary by 1 or 2 cents but that is ok). It may be tuned to A=440Hz or A=442Hz. Most electronic tuners allow you to alter this. If you have the tremolo reed engaged, obviously two reeds are sounding and your tuner will give you a sort of average, which isn't that helpful. On a strobe tuner you can sort of see the tremolo pulsing so you can get an idea of what kind of tremolo it's got…though of course you can hear this too. Dirk's Tuner is pretty good and v useful for measuring the tremolo rate and performing other diagnostic tasks…but is more of a professional tool. Getting a reading from the bass side is more challenging, But if it sounds generally ok then you can get it's reference pitch by checking the treble side.

 

[dak]

The tuning of each reed should be the same on pull and push

Beancounter here: the pitch of the push reed on a reed plate should be the same as the pitch of its pull reed cousin. Accordion reeds only act on one air direction, so you need pairs of them (reed organ reeds also only act on one air direction but there is only one air direction, so you don't need to pair them or require valves to close off the "wrong" reed).

There also may be the problem that the pitch may not be constant across all pressures/volumes. If there is too large of a discrepancy, experienced tuners can reduce the pressure dependency (that usually is achieved by the underlying reed profile that results in larger stiffness when a longer part of the reed is excited at higher volumes, but the consistency of the reed profile may suffer under tuning).

One problem is that the tuning is not established by a single reed (which may well be detuned from its nominal pitch) but by the ensemble of the reeds. In comparatively dire cases, the whole ensemble may wander in one direction (rust makes it go down, a large number of curled or missing valves make it go up) but in less catastrophic cases, one can determine the original tuning comparatively well.

Of course when the instrument is being tuned from scratch, you indeed start with a single reference reed and then lay a reference octave (fifth by fifth, and closing the circle of fifths without noticeable discrepancy if you got it right). And then you go from that reference octave. That minimizes discrepancies in the beat frequencies that are conspicuous to human hearing. If you instead tune every reed independently, you need more than double the precision to arrive at equally good results.