8 bass and 12 bass piano accordions

[Deleted member 48]

Im looking for the exact netto weight of some lightweight accordions.
Some of these have the low G note as a starter note, making them interesting for busking.
Exact information about the net weight of these accordions seems to be missing, or at least confusing. Id rather see some figures in kg or lbs, all I see is descriptions as feather light, very lightweight, but no actual numbers.
In my country we dont have these boxes in the music shops, so I cant check it out myself.
But I see in the UK and USA they are, anyone has info on the weight in kilogram or lbs?

A 12 bass Chinese made, 2 voices tremolo

Chanson 12 Bass Accordion

a 8 bass mini piano accordion. Its a Chinese made, Goldencup brand, and has 2 voices tremolo
On the net this kind of accordion comes in different labels

Accordion for Sale #107 - Goldencup 8 Bass $175

A 12 bass Chinese made, Parrot, 2 voices (tremolo ?)
http://accordionforsale.net/shop/parrot-12-bass-accordion/

Scarlatti 8 bass, Chinese made
http://www.redcowmusic.co.uk/Accordions?product_id=488

Scarlatti 12 bass
http://www.promenademusic.co.uk/scarlatti-12-bass-accordion

Stephanelli 12 bass, Chinese made
http://www.redcowmusic.co.uk/Accordions?product_id=103

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Though not on your list, I can give you the weights of two 12 Bass Piano Accordions.
1) Galotta 12 Bass --- 3.5 kg --- 7.7 Lbs
2) Hohner Student 12 Bass --- 3.63 kg --- 8.9 Lbs
Hope this helps.
Stephen Hawkins.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Thank you for this info on the Galotta and Hohner Student 12 bass accordions.
These brands are quality instruments. I once had a Traviata brand 12 bass piano accordion (2 voice tremolo; an older accordion ), I believe it was under 3 kg.

These days very few new ones are made, except for the low quality Chinese ones.
In 2013 Weltmeister made a 22 key + 12 bass, but it was a 1-voice, and Im not sure if they still make it.

The smallest I have is a 2-voice tremolo Hohner Imperial I with 12 basses (2,2 à 2,3 kilogram netto), comparable in size to a Hohner Regina.



I was trying to find out what is the minimal weight of a 12 bass or 8 bass chromatic accordion (piano or CBA layout), with approximately 25 or 26 notes on the melody side.
Especially the ones starting with a low G note have my attention.
Guess that minimal weight could be somewhere from 2 kg to 3 kg.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Stephen,
Can I ask why you need precise weights? I would guess that most 12 Bass Piano Accordions are roughly the same weight, and am wondering what difference a few ounces here or there would make.
I am very new to all this, and am learning much from visiting this site. A new friend of mine who manages a music store says that the Chanson is quite well made, though purists seem to disagree.
As an example of what I mean, I (legally) owned a large collection of firearms, which I would use at licenced ranges. One of my many pistols was a Smith & Wesson Model 28, .357" Magnum. It cost me £132 brand new, and was a very useful and quite accurate weapon. A chap I knew at the time owned a Manhurin pistol, hand built in France. His weapon cost around 5 times more than mine, but he couldn't hit a Cow's A**e with a Banjo.
I wonder how much of that goes on in the World of Accordions.
Good luck with your research,
Stephen.

 

[Deleted member 48]

When I take an accordion outdoors with me for a sunday afternoon walk, I want a box as lightweight as possible, and that still has a range of 25 or 26 music notes + 8 or 12 stradella basses. Always on the look for the most practical combination in an accordion.
(I'd prefer at least 12 basses, but with 8 basses I can play quite some tunes).

And precise numbers and info on size and weight doesn't take much characters online.
In some online accordion descriptions words like "lightweight" or "featherlight" can be interpretated differently. Ciphers and numbers give you immediate and precise information.
Using a precision scale, there is no misunderstanding or confusion.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Stephen,
I agree that it would be helpful if dealers included precise weights in their advertisements, but I suppose they believe the use of a descriptive word (i.e. lightweight) would suffice for most people.
I have not yet reached a level of competence at which I would be comfortable taking my accordion for a stroll, nor would I wish to subject an unsuspecting public to my musical tastes.
A 'phone call or visit to a shop which deals in accordions seems to me the next logical step, as I'm sure expert staff would have all the information you require at their fingertips.
Kind Regards,
Stephen.

 

[artidots]

Stephen,
…….but he couldnt hit a Cows A**e with a Banjo.

Delightful, really loved that, Stephen.

…. but to continue, stated instrument weights are not always honest Im afraid, being often driven by marketing forces viz potential buyers looking for lighter instruments. The data is often ambiguous as well in that it rarely mentions whether the weight of the straps is included or not, so proper comparisons are difficult. Caveat Emptor as ever, as you know.

Best wishes

Rob

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Rob,
Glad you appreciated the humorous turn of phrase.
I'm still trying to understand why it is that a few ounces here or there matters all that much. I take my dog for a walk, but I leave my accordion at home.
If the accordion needs to be transported anywhere, it goes in the back of the car. I readily confess that I am a complete novice at this game, but I have never, in my almost 70 years, seen anyone perambulating with an accordion.
I guess you live and learn.
Kind Regards,
Stephen Hawkins.

 

[Deleted member 48]

if "all the information (about the weight) you require (is) at their fingertips" ,
why don't they simply put this info about the netto weight in lbs or kg on their website ?

If this info is at the fingertips, it takes a few minutes to put it online.

Eg on German, French, Italian, ... accordion websites you often find very detailed online accordion product descriptions, including mesurements in cm and mm, and including weights.
It's a sign the seller takes the product serious by offering as much and correct info as possible.

Maybe these Chinese accordions are not readily available in a shop or stock, so they can't immediately put it on a precision scale.
But they could contact the Chinese makers or suppliers to communicate all the numbers and figures.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Stephen,

Not wishing to contradict you, but I have seen the weights of Chinese instruments published on dealer websites. Whether or not they are accurate, I cannot say. Chanson, Pearl River and many other Chinese accordions have their weights clearly marked in the advertising blurb.

I infer from your post that you are not the biggest fan of Chinese made instruments, and am wondering if your quest for information about them is purely academic.

Kind Regards,

Stephen Hawkins.

 

[Deleted member 48]

My quest for information on the weight is to have as much correct and objective info on all accordions, regardless of the fact if they are top price range or low price range instruments.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Stephen,

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I will certainly inform you if I come across the weights and dimensions of any instrument you have mentioned.

You are obviously deeply concerned about this matter, and I hope that you will be able to persuade manufacturers that their omissions are unacceptable.

Prior to reading your comments, I confess that I had given no thought at all to the weight of small instruments, perhaps believing (erroneously, as it turns out) that carrying any 12 Bass accordion would not prove to be an insurmountable obstacle for the average player. In my ignorance, I based my original assumption on the fact that my little Galotta is quite heavy for a 12 Bass and, in spite of my advanced years, I could carry it around all day if I was minded to do so. How wrong I was !!!

Kind Regards,

Stephen Hawkins.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Hello,

I admit Im very much focused on the lightweight aspect of some mini accordions.
Its because for some years now Im on an (almost) mission impossible to find a small CBA accordion with 12 Stradella basses (bass + open chords without the thirds), to be able to play in major ànd minor keys.

Its not that difficult to find 27 cm to 30 cm high CBA accordions, but the aim is to find 18 cm to 25/26 cm high accordions. To keep the weight as minimal as possible.

I already have a 1-voice (8-foot) mini Paolo Soprani with 12 basses (only 1 voice), and it is 2,45 kg, including the shoulder straps.

But my end goal is a 2 voice tremolo accordion (8+8, if possible with one register switch to have 2 different sounds) + 12 Stradella open basses , for a weight between 2,2 kg à 2,6 kg.
To obtain this goal, the accordion size is the most difficult aspect. Because boxes this small are very rare.
Id limit the note range to 25 or 26 notes, so each of the 3 (CBA) rows would be 9 buttons vertically. This way I know one can go down to 18 cm minimum. Theres is a Maurice Costa accordion from ca 1935 in a Paris collection that is 18 cm high, and the middle row is even 10 buttons vertically, in total it has 28 buttons.
http://www.boite-accordeon.com/galerie5.html

With modern CNC machinery and computers, accordion makers are able to build these mini chromatic accordions.
My dreams are about an accordion for every occasion, my 96 bass for playing at home; my 60 bass (5,8 kg) for occasional outdoors playing; and a mini 12 bass (about 2,5 kg) for frequent outdoors accordion playing.

I even wonder if a 25/26 button accordion without basses is possible for 1,5 kg total net weight. If limited to 20 cm high or less, this just might be possible with a minimum number of bellows folds.

 

[artidots]

Stephen have you looked this ?

http://diato.org/chroma_e.htm

4 kgs if I recall correctly.

Bernard Loffet makes beautiful boxes and is an honest and generally lovely chap; I have owned a couple of his Melodeons (new) in the past, both superb.

His little 3 row chromatic is a very tempting instrument and includes major bass chords without thirds. The main snag for some is perhaps the lack of counterbasses as has been discussed a bit on the Melodeon forum (mel.net). Also it seems to to be restricted to 2 voice treble which may be insufficient for your intentions.

Happy hunting and best wishes

Rob

 

[Deleted member 48]

Hello Rob,
I have been looking at the small chromatics/ petits chromatiques by Loffet. There are a small number of accordion makers who have experimented with lightweight chromatic accordions, such as B. Loffet, Tania Rutkowski, Marc Sérafini, Frans Van der Aa, the Swiss Untersee Akkordeon Werkstatt, ...

The Loffet has a 35 notes range. I would limit myself to 25/26 notes, in order to go under 3 kg, between 1,5 kg to 3 kg.