Accordion and melodeon bass sounds

[Sandy Flett]

I find the sound of a good melodeon bass to be more distinct and positive (and pleasing) than the wider-spread sound of accordion bass notes (with all couplers open). I assume this is due to melodeon bass note buttons only sounding two low reeds (octave apart), compared with the three or more reeds (octaves apart) generally sounded by accordion bass note buttons.. I would like to have the melodeon sound on my accordion bass, especially for doing bass runs and drones, but was wondering why this is not offered as an option (as far as I am aware). Anybody got any experience of this? Any down sides to consider? Is it something I should be able to specify for a new-build box?

 

[debra]

Accordion bass notes use multiple reeds to hide the octave jump. Different sets of reeds have a different lowest and highest note, and when you use a 4 reed bass you can play a scale over and over again: it's continuous without actually going up and up, yet it does not jump from the end of the scale to the beginning of the scale but just continues.
Some accordions do have registers that give you just 2 reeds playing and then you will hear that it's not so continuous but actually jumps.
And with the convertor to get melody bass (or with MIII) you do get either a 1 or 2 reed bass. On most accordions that will be wo low reeds one octave apart, so an L and M reed. On most bayans it will be two reeds in the same octave, so two L reeds.

 

[TomBR]

I think the essence of it is that melodeon basses don't share reeds, one button opens one pallet for a group of reeds dedicated to that button. The chord voicing can then be chosen, either for ease of manufacture, or to sound good. Stradella mechanism means that all chords are made from the same chromatic reed sets of course. Extra octaves help hide the "corners" as Paul says.

I think Hohner tend to use reed plates taken from a diatonic scale reed set, so where you have, say G chord one way on the bellows and C chord the other, the reed plates will be one G/G, one B/C and one D/E. The Italian makers use a greater variety of reed plates, partly because if you want a stop to take out the thirds, then the third of the chord both ways has to be on the same plate.

It's a very interesting and quite significant point Sandy. If one was satisfied with fewer basses they could be constructed melodeon-wise, even if the buttons were standard Stradella - how about a piano accordion with just C,G,D,A, Em and B minor or major (since that's all a D/G melodeon has.) That would be an easy reed swap for a 12 bass box. Alternatively, I guess a Stradella mechanism could be built so as to link each octave seperately, giving the designer options as to the most pleasing voicing. Wouldn't free bass mechanisms have separate pallets for each octave?

I don't know what's the largest number of basses that uses a dedicated one button = one reed set relationship. 24 ?

 

[Sandy Flett]

I think the essence of it is that melodeon basses dont share reeds, one button opens one pallet for a group of reeds dedicated to that button. The chord voicing can then be chosen, either for ease of manufacture, or to sound good. Stradella mechanism means that all chords are made from the same chromatic reed sets of course. Extra octaves help hide the corners as Paul says.

I think Hohner tend to use reed plates taken from a diatonic scale reed set, so where you have, say G chord one way on the bellows and C chord the other, the reed plates will be one G/G, one B/C and one D/E. The Italian makers use a greater variety of reed plates, partly because if you want a stop to take out the thirds, then the third of the chord both ways has to be on the same plate.

Its a very interesting and quite significant point Sandy. If one was satisfied with fewer basses they could be constructed melodeon-wise, even if the buttons were standard Stradella - how about a piano accordion with just C,G,D,A, Em and B minor or major (since thats all a D/G melodeon has.) That would be an easy reed swap for a 12 bass box. Alternatively, I guess a Stradella mechanism could be built so as to link each octave seperately, giving the designer options as to the most pleasing voicing. Wouldnt free bass mechanisms have separate pallets for each octave?

I dont know whats the largest number of basses that uses a dedicated one button = one reed set relationship. 24 ?

Thanks Tom, but if I understand you, you are talking about chords here whereas my interest is in the actual bass notes - the oom of the oom-pah.

 

[george garside]

the 12 'stradella layout' used on some hohner double ray melodeons and on hohner trichord button accordions have a much more distinctive oom than on larger stradella setups presumably because reeds are not shared?

george

 

[debra]

The base notes (the oom) on an accordion only consist of one note from different octaves and there is no reed sharing involved. An accordion with a 4 reed bass has 4 sets of reeds, so even if two different reeds play in the same octave they are still two reeds, not a single shared reed.
Only the chords share reeds. When you play say Cdim and Adim together the Cdim will contain C Es A and the A dim will contain A C Fis(Ges) and the A and C are then shared.

 

[TomBR]

Sorry Sandy, didn't read your post carefully enough. Some of what I wrote is relevant to the bass notes, but a lot isn't. An octave is an octave however the reeds are controlled.

Given what George says about a "distinctive oom", I wonder if it's a matter of case acoustics, not reeds. The bass box of a diatonic style accordion is pretty empty, just a few rods and levers, whereas Stradella basses are speaking through all the mechanical jumble of the mechanism. Seems reasonable that that should make a difference.

 

[george garside]

? so melodeon bass 'oom' can get out easily whereas with large stradella setups it is more like a fart in a cullender going round and round and not knowing which hole to come out of

george

 

[TomBR]

? so melodeon bass 'oom' can get out easily whereas with large stradella setups it is more like a fart in a cullender going round and round and not knowing which hole to come out of

george

So elegantly put!
Tom

 

[Sandy Flett]

Thanks all for your inputs.

Given what George says about a distinctive oom, I wonder if its a matter of case acoustics, not reeds. The bass box of a diatonic style accordion is pretty empty, just a few rods and levers, whereas Stradella basses are speaking through all the mechanical jumble of the mechanism. Seems reasonable that that should make a difference.

Sounds plausible; I had not thought of that. But that would seem to make it even more important not to add to the jumble/muddle of the accordion bass note sound by including the 3rd and 4th higher reeds.

 

[donn]

I bet a quarter that if you put the same reeds in there, youll get the same tone. Opening up the enclosure could make a difference; the acoustics of the bass mechanism itself not so much.

There seems to be a degree of attack, that I cant get on accordion, which will affect the sound more than the tone if you will.

[edit - for example, Stamp i drängstugan. My hunch is there are exactly two bass reeds in there, but they sound pretty big. And that attack! Maybe something to do with the valve hole size and valve construction?]

 

[Panya37]

Sandy, is this anything like the tone you are after?



Im guessing there is some echo on the recording with this Pietro Mario but Steffi said she was just playing it acoustic. I was really struck by the tone of the bass (and the treble!). It seemed more like the typical sound of a button box. But I may be wide of the mark here.

 

[Sandy Flett]

Many thanks for that. It is indeed a lovely sound, both bass and treble. I could settle for that.