Air leaking on the treble side

[yaroslav9728]

Hi all members of this forum,

I noticed that my piano accordion has air leaks inside of the treble side in the right hand, although bellows don't have any damages or gaps in both sides. What could cause this problem and how to fix it?

 

[Sebastian Bravo]

It can be an old leather, gasket, even holes! To find the leaks, pick your accordion at 2am or in a very silent room, open the bellows at it's max, and then force close the bellows with a lot of pressure, without playing any note. Tell someone to use their ear, to find the leaks. Then tell us where it's leaking and we will guide you in the process. You can also use a microphone to search the leaks, the air leaking sound will be picked up by the microphone and will sound in the speakers. Try searching the leaks with the grill removed!

 

[yaroslav9728]

It can be an old leather, gasket, even holes! To find the leaks, pick your accordion at 2am or in a very silent room, open the bellows at it's max, and then force close the bellows with a lot of pressure, without playing any note. Tell someone to use their ear, to find the leaks. Then tell us where it's leaking and we will guide you in the process. You can also use a microphone to search the leaks, the air leaking sound will be picked up by the microphone and will sound in the speakers. Try searching the leaks with the grill removed!

The bellows don't have any holes. I checked it. Probably any of key doesn't close properly or any of things above except holes.

If I will repair at accordion shop what is the price will be after repair?

 

[debra]

Here are two examples of faults in the gasket between the treble (or bass) side of the accordion and the bellows.
The gasket needs to make an airtight seal between the components. Any gaps will most certainly cause an air leak.
An accordion will never be completely airtight. On a typical 41/120 accordion you have 41 pallets, covering 164 holes
and on the bass side you have 24 pallets, covering 60 holes. You can imagine a tiny bit of air escaping through the 224 holes that need to be kept closed by the pallets.

 

[Glug]

Major reasons include bellows gasket, pallet not closing, missaligned pallet, worn pallet facings.

None of those are hard to fix, finding the problem is the hard bit.
While closing bellows with no keys pressed:
Step 1: listen to the treble end.
Step 2: apply wet lip near any possible problems
Step 3: apply small patch of soapy water to look for bubbles (and dry it after)

You can also try a cheap stethoscope: remove the listening bit and replace it with 4 inches of 1/4 inch metal tube. A breeze near the end will sound quite loud.

How to fix stuff: http://accordionrevival.com/Home.php
Or ask on here

 

[debra]

Major reasons include bellows gasket, pallet not closing, missaligned pallet, worn pallet facings.

None of those are hard to fix, finding the problem is the hard bit.
While closing bellows with no keys pressed:
Step 1: listen to the treble end.
Step 2: apply wet lip near any possible problems
Step 3: apply small patch of soapy water to look for bubbles (and dry it after)

You can also try a cheap stethoscope: remove the listening bit and replace it with 4 inches of 1/4 inch metal tube. A breeze near the end will sound quite loud.

How to fix stuff: http://accordionrevival.com/Home.php
Or ask on here

Excellent tips. What also works:
1) use your eyeball (close to the join between bellows and treble side (or bass side) to feel air escaping (you will feel air even when you cannot yet hear it).
2) use the thinnest cigarette paper. Hold by one end. See if any "wind" is blowing on the other end. Even though I have never ever smoked (not even a single puff) I did buy cigarette paper, just for accordion repair.
Cigarette paper is also good for checking whether a pallet closes properly. You press a key, put cigarette paper under the pallet, release the key and then pull the cigarette paper out. It should give about the same resistance on each pallet.

 

[Ventura]

love the marijuana paper (oops) cigarette paper trick

some of us won't even have to go to the store first to test this method !

 

[Tom]

love the marijuana paper (oops) cigarette paper trick

some of us won't even have to go to the store first to test this method !

Depends on your state, quite literally and figuratively, unfortunately. ?

 

[Sebastian Bravo]

The bellows don't have any holes. I checked it. Probably any of key doesn't close properly or any of things above except holes.

If I will repair at accordion shop what is the price will be after repair?

But i didn't say that the bellows has holes! i wrote holes because i found holes in some accordions with missing bolts, and the holes of the bolts sometimes causes air leaks. I hope you find the air leaks soon and tell us where it is, that way we can help you in the repair.

if you are here just to ask about how much would the technician charge for the repair, we can't tell. But it's better that you find it, it isn't a difficult task and maybe you can fix it by yourself.

 

[nagant27]

I struggle with finding an air leak a lot too. I’ve found first by listening real close and opening and closing the bellows I can maybe hear the general area. Then I put my face/cheek around and see if I can feel it. Also if I turn the lights off and shine a flashlight from the inside out I can see some light and this helps. As for the smoking thing I’ve heard you can also exhale inside the accordion and see if it seeps out anywhere on the outside. All in all it’s not easy and really takes some time and investigating, and it makes a big difference. Good luck!

 

[Dingo40]

"As for the smoking thing I’ve heard you can also exhale inside the accordion and see if it seeps out anywhere on the outside."
Nagant,
And, this solves the moth problem as well!?

 

[yaroslav9728]

To continue this topic.

May it influences on the level of compression if the bellows were pulled back very strong without pressing any buttons or keys? If yes, how to improve the level of compression?
If no, what could case the air leaking on the right hand except holes?

 

[Sebastian Bravo]

To continue this topic.

May it influences on the level of compression if the bellows were pulled back very strong without pressing any buttons or keys? If yes, how to improve the level of compression?
If no, what could case the air leaking on the right hand except holes?

i've forced my bellows a lot of time to find leaks and the compression gets worse, but not as much... minutes after it goes back to normal, it also depends on the day, if it's a sunny day, the compression is better, and i don't know why.

 

[yaroslav9728]

i've forced my bellows a lot of time to find leaks and the compression gets worse, but not as much... minutes after it goes back to normal, it also depends on the day, if it's a sunny day, the compression is better, and i don't know why.

It is very interesting for me too as I am beginner. One time a compression is very good and air leak is not so noticeable, another time a compression is a little bad and air leak is quite noticeable. Interesting, why? What factors influence on it?

 

[debra]

It is very interesting for me too as I am beginner. One time a compression is very good and air leak is not so noticeable, another time a compression is a little bad and air leak is quite noticeable. Interesting, why? What factors influence on it?

One possible cause of a difference in air loss is when there is a bit of play in the keyboard mechanism. If the pallets can wiggle a bit and thus close a bit more to the left or right that may influence the air loss through the pallets. It's also possible that after pressing the "air button" it does not close 100%. When there is a bit of leakage through pallets there will also be more air loss in "tutti" register than in just one M reed.

 

[yaroslav9728]

One possible cause of a difference in air loss is when there is a bit of play in the keyboard mechanism. If the pallets can wiggle a bit and thus close a bit more to the left or right that may influence the air loss through the pallets. It's also possible that after pressing the "air button" it does not close 100%. When there is a bit of leakage through pallets there will also be more air loss in "tutti" register than in just one M reed.

Ok, I just wanted to know, what is the price can be after repair if to do it through accordion shop?

 

[JIM D.]

I'm afraid you will not get helpful answers to your questions on your situation or repair estimates without giving us
some information.
(1) What is the make & model of your accordion.
(2) The age of the instrument.
(3) and if all possible - pictures of the accordion with the grill removed.

 

[yaroslav9728]

I'm afraid you will not get helpful answers to your questions on your situation or repair estimates without giving us
some information.
(1) What is the make & model of your accordion.
(2) The age of the instrument.
(3) and if all possible - pictures of the accordion with the grill removed.

I will provide some information about my piano accordion as soon as possible.

 

[yaroslav9728]

I'm afraid you will not get helpful answers to your questions on your situation or repair estimates without giving us
some information.
(1) What is the make & model of your accordion.
(2) The age of the instrument.
(3) and if all possible - pictures of the accordion with the grill removed.

Hohner Lucia/Pirolla III
1950-1960s
Pictures will be a little bit later.

 

[Juls108]

Hi all members of this forum,

I noticed that my piano accordion has air leaks inside of the treble side in the right hand, although bellows don't have any damages or gaps in both sides. What could cause this problem and how to fix it?

Hallo Sir. Having personally tried and applied a variety of remedies for the ubiquitous air issue, both recommended and speculatory, I have found the most successful one to hand to be racing cycle rubber inner tube, stripped and affixed with a narrow band of double-sided adhesive tape. Please note that his is not a professional recommendation, but purely to share a personal success in the matter of saving air. Applied to the flat timber lip of the bellows rim, strips may be scarfed or wedge joined, the which would be preferred anywhere along either of the long straight rims.
Cheers.