An interesting observation re: Petosa & Bugari Advertising Claims

[Hezekiah777]

I've been playing piano accordions purchased from Petosa in Seattle for about 10 years or so, and so far have had a very satisfying experience. Seattle is about a day's drive from where I live and I can drive there, stay in a hotel and spend a morning or afternoon at their shop trying out various accordions. I've always been told that the Petosa brand is the very finest mahogany cabinets, walnut keyboards and the very finest components of ANY brand in existence today, and I've always been pleased with the 3 accordions I've purchased from them. I bought a Giulietti , a Petosa Artista LMMM and an Americana LMM. Recently I thought, yeah I like my Americana, but I would like something nicer to play in my latter years, so I began to look at different web sites and talk to different shops. I like the sound of Beltunas with triple musette, but the reeds are machine reeds at least in my price range , I really like the Petosa little pro extreme with voci armoniche blue star reeds, but the 15" keyboard is one of the things I'm getting sick of on my Americana so that's out, and I'm getting a quote for a Bugari LMMM model 151 with voci armoniche blue star reeds. But getting back to the reason for this post, I had to smile when I read this on the website about Bugari: "only the best aged mahogany cabinets and reed blocks, the finest walnut keyboards and the best components available" same speel that Petosa has been saying to me for the last 10 years. I didn't actually read this, but I got the feeling that since Bugari Armando owns Zero Sette factory now, they consider Bugari to be the premium brand and Giulietti, Zero Sette and Petosa to be OK. Funny thought really, although I do cringe when someone quotes $8K for a new accordion, of course if it's the best aged mahogany, walnut and components, well..........................

 

[OuijaBoard]

But getting back to the reason for this post, I had to smile when I read this on the website about Bugari: "only the best aged mahogany cabinets and reed blocks, the finest walnut keyboards and the best components available" same speel that Petosa has been saying to me for the last 10 years. I didn't actually read this, but I got the feeling that since Bugari Armando owns Zero Sette factory now, they consider Bugari to be the premium brand and Giulietti, Zero Sette and Petosa to be OK. Funny thought really, although I do cringe when someone quotes $8K for a new accordion, of course if it's the best aged mahogany, walnut and components, well..........................

I'm confused by what you mean. I think Petosa is still saying (or, "claiming") their own "Petosa" marque is an absolute premium. But when you read the specs for "Bugari" product the described premium features are along similar lines. And that is because "Petosa" product is essentially Bugari stuff but specced to Petosa particulars and wearing the Petosa badge. At a price premium, bien sur. I'm not sure what they'd say about Giulietti because new product with that marque doesn't seem to be appearing anymore. Same with Zero Sette. The Zero Sette factory more or less "is" the Bugari factory now, but it's kind of moot because new "Zero Sette" labeled product is not being stocked anywhere.

I'm pretty sure the gent at Carnegie Accordions in Philadelphia (Kevin Solecki) is doing something similar--marketing accordions under his own "Solloni" badge that are made in the Bugari/Zero Sette concern. At the moment he's big on 34/72 LMMs with TAM (or a mano to order) reeds, that are similar to the Bugari model 115 34/72. But I think you can order "Sollonis" in more fancy-pants sizes and specs. That essentially will be like Bugaris underneath.

 

[Ventura]

so you claim Bugari "owns" Zero, and are willing to
state that as if it were a fact, and somehow rate various
brand names as if you speak for the management as well

 

[Hezekiah777]

so you claim Bugari "owns" Zero, and are willing to
state that as if it were a fact, and somehow rate various
brand names as if you speak for the management as well

Just an observation on my part, I was told that Bugari owns zero settle now. I'm not sure what your motivation is.

 

[Hezekiah777]

I'm confused by what you mean. I think Petosa is still saying (or, "claiming") their own "Petosa" marque is an absolute premium. But when you read the specs for "Bugari" product the described premium features are along similar lines. And that is because "Petosa" product is essentially Bugari stuff but specced to Petosa particulars and wearing the Petosa badge. At a price premium, bien sur. I'm not sure what they'd say about Giulietti because new product with that marque doesn't seem to be appearing anymore. Same with Zero Sette. The Zero Sette factory more or less "is" the Bugari factory now, but it's kind of moot because new "Zero Sette" labeled product is not being stocked anywhere.

I'm pretty sure the gent at Carnegie Accordions in Philadelphia (Kevin Solecki) is doing something similar--marketing accordions under his own "Solloni" badge that are made in the Bugari/Zero Sette concern. At the moment he's big on 34/72 LMMs with TAM (or a mano to order) reeds, that are similar to the Bugari model 115 34/72. But I think you can order "Sollonis" in more fancy-pants sizes and specs. That essentially will be like Bugaris underneath.

Yeah I think that Petosa definitely has very nice accordions, I've never owned a Bugari, but since they are using the same terminology as Petosa they must be very nice.

I'm confused by what you mean. I think Petosa is still saying (or, "claiming") their own "Petosa" marque is an absolute premium. But when you read the specs for "Bugari" product the described premium features are along similar lines. And that is because "Petosa" product is essentially Bugari stuff but specced to Petosa particulars and wearing the Petosa badge. At a price premium, bien sur. I'm not sure what they'd say about Giulietti because new product with that marque doesn't seem to be appearing anymore. Same with Zero Sette. The Zero Sette factory more or less "is" the Bugari factory now, but it's kind of moot because new "Zero Sette" labeled product is not being stocked anywhere.

I'm pretty sure the gent at Carnegie Accordions in Philadelphia (Kevin Solecki) is doing something similar--marketing accordions under his own "Solloni" badge that are made in the Bugari/Zero Sette concern. At the moment he's big on 34/72 LMMs with TAM (or a mano to order) reeds, that are similar to the Bugari model 115 34/72. But I think you can order "Sollonis" in more fancy-pants sizes and specs. That essentially will be like Bugaris underneath.

I've followed Kevin Solecki's career, bought his first cd called Solektions, he is extremely talented. He seems to sell out of everything he sells. But like I've commented on some of his videos, he could make any accordion sound fantastic.

 

[OuijaBoard]

so you claim Bugari "owns" Zero, and are willing to
state that as if it were a fact, and somehow rate various
brand names as if you speak for the management as well

Am I being addressed? I don't see the word "owns" in my post above, nor do I see any claims to speak for management of any concern beyond discussing claims in online product blurbs for Petosa and Bugari.

My own post made a statement about the factory. It also made a statement about Bugari and product with the "Petosa" marque. And it stated that new product with the Giulietti or Zero Sette marques isn't appearing currently.

 

[Hezekiah777]

Am I being addressed? I don't see the word "owns" in either of the posts above, nor do I see any claims to speak for management of any concern beyond discussing claims in online product blurbs for Petosa and Bugari.

My own post made a statement about the factory. It also made a statement about Bugari and product with the "Petosa" marque. And it stated that new product with the Giulietti or Zero Sette marques isn't appearing currently.

I think I'm being addressed for an observation I made, . Wow! Accordion people never change

 

[Hezekiah777]

Hey I heard a joke 20 years ago when I first got involved with playing accordions: "What do accordionists use for birth control"?

 

[OuijaBoard]

Yeah I think that Petosa definitely has very nice accordions, I've never owned a Bugari, but since they are using the same terminology as Petosa they must be very nice.

I've followed Kevin Solecki's career, bought his first cd called Solektions, he is extremely talented. He seems to sell out of everything he sells. But like I've commented on some of his videos, he could make any accordion sound fantastic.

There's a lot of fog, mist, smoke and mirrors going on with who "owns" or produces what over in Castelfi these days, complicated by the product blurbs of dealers here who are putting their own badge on product from Italy. Because Bugari and Zero Sette are at last we heard the same factory, essentially it's probably advisable to nail down precise details of specs on what you are ordering. Because "lines" produced at that factory may follow different specs and features. And the same goes for stuff put out by that factory to specs ordered by dealers over in the US under their own marque or badge.

It is a challenging topic for a few reasons. One is that at a time when there are some dismaying quality issues with supposedly Italian product, the Bugari or Zero Sette names and the idea of production from that factory, stand out as continuing to carry quality credibility--whether that is still merited . . . one certainly hopes so.

Another reason it is a challenging issue, is that Petosa marketing material at one time (or maybe still, I haven't checked lately), gave an impression that Petosa was making their own reeds and accordions, when the instruments were coming from Italy. To complicate that, "Petosa" badged instruments are often more expensive than instruments that appear to have similar specs, from Bugari or Zero Sette or Giulietti when there were new Zero Sette or Giulietti products issuing.

Yet another reason it is a challenging topic is that at a time when prices continue to rise ever higher while incomes so often are not---a consumer wishes transparent information for their very large investment, yet, as noted above . . . it is hard to ascertain or nail down for sure who is producing what and what you are getting from whom, with current Italian production.

 

[Ventura]

to be clear,

Hezekiah777 wrote​

since Bugari Armando owns Zero Sette factory now,

and i say
that is not an observation, but a statement

Hezekiah777 wrote​

they consider Bugari to be the premium brand and Giulietti, Zero Sette and Petosa to be OK.

and i show resistance to that because
that is also a statement, and it obviously is one ONLY the management
of Bugari would actually be able or qualified to make

the motivation is that i wanted readers to know it is OK to utterly reject
those statements if they wish

 

[Thomas N]

I think I'm being addressed for an observation I made, . Wow! Accordion people never change

You've been here a couple days, which is awesome! It's not accordion people, it's just people. You're in a forum where there are individuals that have played accordion for 60 years, some of them professionally. They have been around the industry forever and know the names and brands in their sleep. They have 5000+ posts here over the past 15 years helping people and addressing misconceptions and issues with accordions. I have benefited tremendously from these interactions and appreciate them.

There's an occasional dust-up but it's quickly squashed. Now you may have 50 years playing, and you obviously own some very nice accordions, and perhaps you have tremendous credentials in the industry. None of us know that - yet.

But I believe it's rash to quickly dismiss some replies as "accordion people". I look forward to your contributions.

 

[saundersbp]

I think I'm being addressed for an observation I made, . Wow! Accordion people never change

Try not to take it personally and welcome to the forum. Like all these internet things some folks zeal is inversely proportional to their manners...

 

[JerryPH]

Looks a bit like a case of paralysis due to over-analysis.
My opinion… the bottom line is that it really doesn’t matter what the name says, it’s all about what is inside and does it make you smile when you put it on and play it.

No Petosa doesn’t make its own accordions, Zero Sette does for Petosa. Yes, Bugari owns Zero Sette, end of story. Internal advertising or politics has no bearing on sound quality. The rest of the story should be:
1. What is your budget or are you willing to pay whatever is needed to get what you want?
2. What EXACTLY do you want in terms of specs?
3. Find what you like that matches your budget, and test it out in person.
4. Getting the warm fuzzies or not? Make the decision to purchase or move on to something that does.



… and though (at least for me), you pigeon holed us as “accordion people”… hmmm, what’s that about? You are in an accordion forum, were you looking for “Ford people” or “foodie people”? Funny thing is that all those groups are human beings with passions about specific things. No one likes to be classified and lumped in to one group in a negative manner.

I can promise you one thing… be disrespectful here, you will get it back times ten, same thing of you are respectful. My 2 cents.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[debra]

I can understand the doubt in some people's mind. So if you didn't know already, have a look at this picture (screen shot from Google Street View):

Regardless of issues of ownership, Bugari and Zero Sette "share" the same factory.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Hey, what focal length or equivalent length was that? It's like a panoramic. That's a cool and fun photo! There should be postcards!

 

[saundersbp]

Speaking of postcards, this is my favourite accordion postcard, sold by Dino Baffetti.

 

[TimeSwan]

I'm pretty sure the gent at Carnegie Accordions in Philadelphia (Kevin Solecki)

Sorry to be that guy but Carnegie is in the Pittsburgh area. More specifically, they are in Carnegie, PA. Liberty Bellows is in Philly.

 

[Ventura]

"Bugari and Zero Sette "share" the same factory"

thank you

exactly

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i really feel most of the mis-information comes from
the mouths of salesmen to snow someone into thinking
the accordion they want the "mark" to buy is the same
or better than the famous one distracting the "mark"

just as i feel the DIS-information that gets wings on the
Internet is the unwitting "repetition" of the mis-information
as fact, and so everything from ownership to reeds ends up
as absolute common knowledge that shouldn't see the light of day

 

[JerryPH]

Hey, what focal length or equivalent length was that? It's like a panoramic. That's a cool and fun photo! There should be postcards!

That could be any original 3:2 photo and simpley cropped in any of many photo editing tools.

 

[JerryPH]

"Bugari and Zero Sette "share" the same factory"
thank you
exactly
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I am planning on going to Italy next year (*possibly* even this year), it would be an easy thing to talk to Bugari, maybe arrange for a visit and see what the integration of Zero Sette and Bugari is... is it sharing a building or sharing businesses?

Traditionally we see one "business" per building, but this certainly does not mean that this is the case, there may be a little white line down the middle of the building that denotes a different company and they smartly share a building for economic purposes, which would not be a bad idea!

My bet is that they just out and out own Zero Sette, at least that is what Bugari is saying HERE.

In 2007: "Bugari Armando buys the ZERO SETTE company and the GIULIETTI brand, bringing together the workers of the two companies in a single plant."

Either way, all 3 brands have had a great reputation for making quality accordions.