Are such accordions any good?

[James]

Hi friends, I noticed some old accordions on ebay such as this one. They are from USSR Russian times. I am wondering if they are any good. I did not find any video shows online but some videos of button accordions that are similar to this one showed the players play with their thumb resting on the edge of the keyboard.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Nuuksu]

These are old russian bayan's. There are many on ebay, some have even registers and convertor free bass system. They may sound very nice if they are in good condition. Also their quality depends on maker, many factories produced them, most famous are Tyla ones.

 

[donn]

An elderly woman shows up at a local farmers' market with a bayan of this style, and it has a very distinctive sound. I almost wish I played B system, so I could get one and try it out on my Morris side, that would be a spectacle! But hers may be only superficially similar; I"m pretty sure she didn't mail order it via ebay.

Someone showed up here (on this site) with one he'd got in the mail, but went away directly after he'd got it working (it had suffered in transit), so we can't ask him how he's getting on with it. On the bright side, these instruments fall somewhat near the maximum that a sane person could think of spending on mail order accordion, and they should have sturdy nail-fastened reeds (where the Italian/German style sadly uses beeswax.) If you don't expect a light, comfortable action, nor a typical accordion sound, and you're ready to open it up and fix whatever's broken, it's sure an inexpensive way to learn B system chromatic. Outside its native environs, I would guess it's unlikely to serve for very long as one's regular instrument, you'll be getting a better one - but that's to be expected anyway.

 

[debra]

An elderly woman shows up at a local farmers market with a bayan of this style, and it has a very distinctive sound. I almost wish I played B system, so I could get one and try it out on my Morris side, that would be a spectacle! But hers may be only superficially similar; Im pretty sure she didnt mail order it via ebay.
...

If you want C system that is an easy conversion for a 3 row bayan. Just switch the reeds on the first and third row.
This switch is much much harder on a 4 or 5 row bayan because of the orientation of the chromatic scale that means the extra rows are offset by one button and changing that on the key levers is much too hard to make it worth even trying.

 

[Deleted member 48]

These Tula B-system accordions are good if you want to try out the CBA system, before buying a more expensive CBA.

Note the bass buttons in black and white colours! The diatonic buttons in white.

I prefer the French CBA buttons, all buttons are unicolour, treble and bass side.
My CBAs are all unicolour buttons. Makes more sense in equal tuning.

Many CBAs in the West have the bass buttons all in white, but the treble in black and white. Not really logical.

Just my personal reflection.

 

[James]

Thank you all, friends, for your so valuable suggestions. They helped me a lot.

 

[TomBR]

Note the bass buttons in black and white colours! The diatonic buttons in white.

I prefer the French CBA buttons, all buttons are unicolour, treble and bass side.
My CBAs are all unicolour buttons. Makes more sense in equal tuning.

Many CBAs in the West have the bass buttons all in white, but the treble in black and white. Not really logical.

I assume the bass layout is standard, despite the coloured buttons?
(Given the length of my neck I care very little about the colour! )

I quite like the idea of trying the three row B to C swap as Paul says. Just not so easy finding out which are the good instruments!
Tom

 

[Nuuksu]

Their bass layout is standard. Buttons are colored probably for edcational use.

 

[Deleted member 48]

I think one single colour for all the stradella bass buttons would be better for accordion didactics and pedagogy.

One single colour improves reasoning in patterns.

Using white and black is using diatonic glasses or spectacles for a chromatic layout.

Stradella bass philosophy is like CBA philosophy. Equal intervals with equal layout.

Looking at the Tula bayan pics above in this topic, you can see the absurdity in the colour pattern.
The disease is called "C majorism ".

I can compare with 6 string guitar. Every fret equally progresses with half a tone.
Imagine the complexity if guitarists would use diatonic colour patterns on a guitar fretboard. And then ask to play a tune in another key.
I don't know any guitar player using white and black on the fretboard. Because the fretboard is chromatic layout per string.

My question is also in some cba accordions, why using double standards for using colours on treble and bass side.
If all the stradella bass buttons are black or white or green or whatever single colour, why using 2 colours for treble side of a CBA?

Doesn't make much sense.

The use of different colours confuses beginners, because they keep sticking to C majorism...

 

[attila57]

I think one single colour for all the stradella bass buttons would be better for accordion didactics and pedagogy.

One single colour improves reasoning in patterns.

Using white and black is using diatonic glasses or spectacles for a chromatic layout.

Stradella bass philosophy is like CBA philosophy. Equal intervals with equal layout.

Looking at the Tula bayan pics above in this topic, you can see the absurdity in the colour pattern.
The disease is called C majorism .

I can compare with 6 string guitar. Every fret equally progresses with half a tone.
Imagine the complexity if guitarists would use diatonic colour patterns on a guitar fretboard. And then ask to play a tune in another key.
I dont know any guitar player using white and black on the fretboard. Because the fretboard is chromatic layout per string.

My question is also in some cba accordions, why using double standards for using colours on treble and bass side.
If all the stradella bass buttons are black or white or green or whatever single colour, why using 2 colours for treble side of a CBA?

Doesnt make much sense.

The use of different colours confuses beginners, because they keep sticking to C majorism...

Hi Stephen,

Im a beginner CBA-ist. I also play the guitar (I hope much better than the accordion). In theory I absolutely agree with you. And, in spite of this, to my greatest surprise, the black buttons on the treble side dont confuse me. Why? I think, its because much of the music we play is in keys, and generally musicians tend to think in keys, certain number of sharps and flats. C majorism if you like, but not full-blown, because when we transpose, we can just shift the pattern. Thats when the black buttons can confuse one, but this problem can be overcome with a little practice, I think. Just forget about the colour temporarily...

Attila

 

[Deleted member 48]

I know about C scale priority in music schools. I had to follow this music school curriculum for 10 years and finished this training.
I don't need colours to think in keys.
Listening helps me more than looking at colours.
My first accordion in music school had white and black. From the second year on I switched to single colour buttons.

France is proof different colours on CBA buttons is not a must for good accordion education. Old school musette training used to be on unicolour buttonboard.

Some Cba teachers support this method.

 

[Nuuksu]

Colored buttons may be useful for very early beginners especially when one plays in front of mirror. These instruments with colored bass buttons were made for beginners and self leaners. I have seen many old and new self instruction books for bayan and they all contain both keyboard layouts with colored buttons. It is good visual feedback also for teacher.

Illustrative example:

Lets suppose that I am interensted in CBA but dont know anything abot music theory and nothing about how accordion bass keyboard works. What I do? I dont have teacher also. I have only instrument and instruction book. I start with book and look my instrument, I notice that book has exactly same layouts that my instrument has, so far so good. First chapter explains something about how to read sheet music and at the ond of chapter there are couple lines of music. But I dont know which buttons correspond to which notes? No problem, I take seat in front of mirror and open keyboard layout page.

One hour later - Yay, I have played these couple lines of music, now I move on to bass side... what it isnt same keyboard at all? Some buttons sound like single notes and some sound like bunch of notes no logic at all. Happily bass side keyboard layout is in book, these fancy colored buttons on my instrument realy help me to orient in this unlogical system.

Two hours later - Look everybody, I can slowly play simple two chord tune.

Two weeks later - I understand a little how bass keyboard works, but still need sometimes to play in front of mirror when working out tunes with bass jumps.

Couple months later - I just finished chapter about intervals and chords, now I know how to find notes on my bass side if I dont know where they are located... finally!

So I think colored bass buttons are not pointless entirely. With professional teacher they are probably not necessary but for self leaners they may speed things up a little. And guess what Tyla factory still makes instruments with colored bass buttons http://melodia-tula.com/c1_0005.htm

I started with PA and with single colored bass buttons, but my beginning was easyer thanks to granddad who played accordion. Otherwise it may have been probably quite hard. Later I went into childrens music school and life went much easyer there also.

 

[Deleted member 48]

My suggestion to CBA accordion teachers and starters would be :
(please fasten seatbels) :
I would make the students learn the CBA logic in the layout the first weeks, and I would forbid the students to pick up or even touch the accordion before they can tell me the logic.
They would have to explain and sell me this system, more enthusiastically than a protestant televangelist.

After this phase, we would start to try out the instrument.

This may sound bizarre, but the real orientation has to happen in the student's brain.
Not on the instrument.

First the study of theory, then the fingerwork.

I do realize this method is not for everyone or every age category.