Bellows glued together

[nagant27]

So I go to open up an accordion and pull the pins, but nothing separates. I shake it a little and the bass side opens up nicely. The treble side will not budge.
Turns out it was glued to the body of the treble side. Why would someone do this??! So now I had to cut the bellows from the frame, in hopes of reglueing it later back to the frame once I get it separated.
Any ideas of other than just working a thin blade between the frame snd the accordion to dislodge the frame? I don’t want to damage anything since I plan to put it all back together.
Thanks.

 

[Dingo40]

So now I had to cut the bellows from the frame, in hopes of reglueing it later back to the frame once I get it separated.

A previous take on this same problem!

Bellows glued to bass end.

I presently have a Hohner Gaelic LMMM 3-row diatonic accordion with some tuning issues. No problem with that but the owner has the added complication that at some time a previous owner has used glue, possibly a wood glue, to attach the bellows to the bass end. Incredible but true! The glued...

www.accordionists.info

 

[nagant27]

I need to separate mine because the treble reed blocks cannot be removed with frame still on.

 

[Ventura]

steam along the seam.. if they used "elmers" type woodglue
steam will loosen the hold of the glue

 

[32251]

Heat can be your friend in this case.

 

[nagant27]

So I ended up using a thin blade and just slowly worked it around it. The steam snd heat didn’t really do anything in this case. Looks like they used Silicone. Totally mess. I’m just peeling it all away, but at least it is separated. Why do people do this stuff?!! Would have been so much easier snd quicker to fix it the right way with a new gasket.

 

[nagant27]

One more thing to add- this could be a real nice instrument!!! Double riveted , original giulietti stamped reeds throughout. Absolutely beautiful. Nice green leather valves too. Better quality than any new valves in my opinion. At least the reeds were left alone on this one.

 

[Ventura]

yeah the Silicone is a pain, but at least it does not destroy anything

it would be quite helpful for reference to upload a few photo's including close ups
of these reeds, as many people here, especially in Europe, have never seen
(and didn't even know) that G made their own reeds from time to time

so this would be a nice bit of visual knowledge for everyone

yes, those reeds are special, and represent some serious old time
"Made in USA" chops

 

[boxplayer4000]

Nagant27
Photographs of your accordion, reeds, de-glued bellows frames and all would indeed be of interest, if you can manage.

 

[debra]

There is a guy on facebook who uses silicone for almost everything inside an accordion. It is so bad it gets funny.
Silicone is for use in kitchens and bathrooms. It has no valid application in accordions.
But no matter how we have tried to explain that, some people just don't get the message.

 

[John Doe]

The old Galanti Super Aristocrats were made with the bass side bellows permanently affixed (glued in some fashion). No pins or screws whatsoever.

Perfectly nice instruments for what they were way way back in the day (LMMH with a shift for the RH bassoon).

The bass blocks are easy to remove/reinsert from the open RH side of the bellow so that's not an issue. If you ever did have occasion to remove the bellows it'd be a pain.

 

[John Doe]

It has no valid application in accordions.

Though it serves quite well for airtight flexible sealing around cables/jacks/screws et al that poke through the case and potentially leak. Not particularly strong- but airtight in the face of repeated flexing. Other traditional sealants (eg; wax) are of course what is normally used but are no better in those specific instances and most sealing issues (but for cables) aren't flexing anyway.

A pretty terrible idea for reed plates or bellows issues though a decent short term stop-gap on a cracked corner leather ( smeared on the crack with a finger) until you can fix if right which you should do before the fix gives up and does you dirt.

 

[nagant27]

 

[nagant27]

Those are pix of the reeds. I’ve only tried them on a tuning table and I will say they are responsive like you wouldn’t believe. The slightest air and even the low bassoon reeds sing instantly. I’m looking forward to seeing how they sound in the accordion. I’ve got to replace the gaskets and fill sone holes on the body yet. Then I will see.

 

[Ventura]

those reeds ARE rare and beautiful to look at

even the leathers are more than decent after all these decades

an excellent example of the days when true artisans took whatever time
and effort was necessary to achieve the goal they had set for themselves and
their products

whatever price you paid for this box, you got a bargain, and i hope you
can get the rest of the instrument up to snuff, but even if you had to put these
reeds in something else, you will be well rewarded..

 

[JKJ]

I have limited experience, but wow, that does look good inside.

As for glue, my player piano repair mentor insisted I use only hide glue where glue is needed. I don’t know how it might apply to accordions, but for play pianos he said to “be kind” to the next person who rebuilds it decades later. He said permanent woodworking glues are the worst since to get the joints apart requires splitting or cutting. I separated some hide-glued wood pieces and removed old bellows cloth with heat. No mention was made of silicone.

BTW, for others that may find a thin blade useful on occasion I’m a big fan of surgical scalpels. I buy some disposable scalpels with plastic handles but the handles are not strong and don’t always hold up to shop use. My favorite are the good No. 3 stainless steel handles, getting blades in bulk, box of 100 (#11 is my favorite for around the shop) Amazon carries all this.

JKJ

 

[JerryPH]

The reeds seem to be stamped "GIULIETTI", I didn't know they made their own reeds?
Talking about people doing stupid things, my accordion that is slated to be the practice box for my learning repairs was also bellows sealed with silicon. That's OK, it's an old Finzi... but still !!

 

[John Doe]

He said permanent woodworking glues are the worst since to get the joints apart requires splitting or cutting. I separated some hide-glued wood pieces and removed old bellows cloth with heat. No mention was made of silicone.

Silicone would be a miserable choice in several regards; it's a pretty weak adhesive and would fail pretty soon if used to affix the bellows to the frame, it's strong enough that over a large surface area (as in the bellows frame to the accordion case) it would be strong enough to be painful to separate, and it tends to ooze out of the joints when applied without a lot of care. The only bright spot would be that as a substitute bellows gasket it would last essentially forever and be completely airtight. Of course, you'd then suffer when you tried to open the bellows- just removing the pins would accomplish approximately nothing. Perhaps on one side- I'd vote bass- it might be OK... but why?

 

[Ventura]

.....they made their own reeds?

yep

but most people didn't know that and many other details, because the "lore"
and the "Buzz" of Giulietti and Titano and some others are overshadowed
by the legend of Zero Sette and Victoria and...

as i have said before.. we need to remember every famed accordion
company was not hatched fully formed overnight.. many had to scratch
and save and beg borrow steal just to get a piece of the market and stay in
business long enough to achieve critical mass

G shadow ordered "bare bones" boxes through the largesse of an older, major
importer who was kind and gave him a leg up allowing him to get a start
and grow before he was even close to affording a full container / minimum order
on his own.. and you might be surprised at how many people learned to
make reeds under his umbrella

then we see through his subsequent years in business and good works
just how much he gave back and invested into the world of Accordionists too..