Can this paper work for "leathers?"

[David Colpitts]

Hi, All. While at the art supply store, I asked about leather for reed valves, and they didn't have any. When I described the type I was looking for, the young person showed me to a piece of paper that had resilience, slightly stiff, a sort of suede side and a smoother side, and I thought it worth the risk. I cut a couple and stuck them in place on my "project" box, and I think they worked. I also tried them with air from a foot pump, while out of the box, and, watched. They blew right open as they should (I think) and went right closed when the air stopped. It stuck great with a drop of glue, and looks like it should be there. BUT....I don't know its name, nor material, but I suspect a linen-poly or cotton-poly or maybe just poly-poly. Does anyone have any experience with anything paper-ish for this application, or am I going to be sorry?
Thanks for any hints.

 

[John Doe]

A piece of a brown paper supermarket bag would work for a valve. The question is for how long.

Given that both leather and synthetic (plastic as an example) accordion valves are widely available on the internet and are fairly thrifty I can't really see using something which may well degrade fairly rapidly and prove to need replacement in fairly short order except as a stopgap "got to do it now" in which case all bets are off.

I made some upper stack pads for a baritone saxophone out of RTV silicone gasket maker in the 1970's when stationed in Korea. I had no access to "real" replacement pads at the time and needed to be able to play the horn. They worked great to tide me over for two months until I could come up with actual pads to replace them.

But that was an example of "need it now" and "have no options" coupled with double work replacing them two months after the fabrication. That does not seem to be the case for you- except potentially for the double work.

"You never know until you try" but even though I'm pretty much always up for new materials for use in accordion innards (on my own personal use instruments) I'd replace a few and see what happens before going whole hog on this. Valves ought to last for years- having them work for a month or two won't exactly settle the issue.

If the material really is close to synthetic leather it might be just fine- but why risk it in this case? A full set of valves is a lot of work- expecially the interior ones and they just don't cost that much.

Keep us posted should you decide to boldly go where no accordion repairer has gone before...

Good luck in any case-
Henry

 

[David Colpitts]

You are correct on all counts, Henry, and I thank you. I will just try the few, and see how they hold up. I just got back from a return trip to the same art supply store where I got the stuff, and found out it's called "Encaustiflex" and is meant for painting with hot wax, stitching, and all sorts of artsy-craftsy stuff. Not paper, it turns out, but "microfibre" which usually means polyester to me. One reason I am not too worried about the need to redo too soon is that this poor box got hot-glued reed blocks, not waxed, on some repairs, so I will have to cut and remove and clean and rewax anyway, so the cheap valves may be just a short-lived experiment on my way to fettling this little PA. I'll keep this forum posted. At five dollars for a 24x36 inch sheet, the price is indeed compelling.

 

[debra]

You are correct on all counts, Henry, and I thank you. I will just try the few, and see how they hold up. I just got back from a return trip to the same art supply store where I got the stuff, and found out it's called "Encaustiflex" and is meant for painting with hot wax, stitching, and all sorts of artsy-craftsy stuff. Not paper, it turns out, but "microfibre" which usually means polyester to me. One reason I am not too worried about the need to redo too soon is that this poor box got hot-glued reed blocks, not waxed, on some repairs, so I will have to cut and remove and clean and rewax anyway, so the cheap valves may be just a short-lived experiment on my way to fettling this little PA. I'll keep this forum posted. At five dollars for a 24x36 inch sheet, the price is indeed compelling.

In older Hohners you often find yellow valves (with plastic boosters) that look a bit like leather but feels a bit like cardboard (when it's old). Maybe that's a relative of the "Encaustiflex", I don't know. I was always surprised that this material works for valves.

 

[John Doe]

Encaustiflex appears to be pretty durable. As I see it to work for valves you need it to:
- be air tight enough to seal off the airflow when flapped closed- probably does that fine
-be flexible enough to flap open when tacked down at the end of a strip and elastic enough to flatten out again when the airflow stops- must not take a permanent bend. Probably fine ... but the issue would be "for how many repetitions?" Might be at least as good as leather which is- traditional or not- no great shakes at this.
-must not take a permanent unintended bend from normal flexing
-strong enough not to sag from gravity unduly.
-The absorbs water aspect- one of its selling points as an art base- might not be so good in an accordion. So does leather- and though opinions vary I view that as a risk factor for rust on reeds.
-be gluable to stay in place with wax or glue.
-be dimensionally stable over time.

Sums up as try a few strips and observe how it does over time. Start with a few of the outside valves on the bass reeds- try it with and without booster springs. Do a few medium reeds "just to see".

Again- good luck.

(The material under discussion
https://allthingsencaustic.com/introducing-encaustiflex/ )

 

[David Colpitts]

Well put...I'll try and then keep an eye on them. Look nice, to my eye, and less "plasticky" looking than shiny mylar. This PA is the little "baby" Moschino free bass 2 octave PA I have written a bit about here; didn't know (and of course, should have looked inside....) about the hot glue or caulk or whatever instead of wax but loved the idea and bought it for not a bad price. It's already "converted" on the piano side to Janko uniform keyboard, so it's an ongoing laboratory in more ways than one, but of course all reversible if need be.

 

[dak]

The main problem I see with experimenting around is that the pitch of the reed depends on the resistance of the material. Changing the type of valve means a change in tune, and if the long-term stability of the material is different from what you have already in there, the situation will keep changing.