Can't stop left hand from slipping under certain situations

[HisNoodliness]

Hi all. Thanks for helping. I am a newbie in this art. I recently got myself a CBA. I've entertained this fantasy for a long time, but only made up my mind a week ago. I've been enjoying learning to play it. It's a great fun. Information from this forum was a great help to get me started.

But I ran into an issue I can't debug by myself. I can't stop my left hand from slipping under certain situations. I have uploaded a few pictures to show the left strap, as well as me playing Cmaj vs Cmin, to illustrate my specific issue.

The first two pictures illustrate the left strap. It's leather on the outside. But the inside is all velvet. I find my palm sticking to the bass board surface 20 times more than the back of my hand can ever stick to the velvet surface of the strap. I can't find a strap tightness setting that stops the back of my left hand from slipping, while allowing me to unglue my palm from the board to move between positions.

The second pair of pictures illustrate me playing Cmaj. I've learned to arch my hand to stretch the strap taut, as I see people do. But I need to tighten the strap almost all the way down to the tightest that the screw allows. But then I can barely move between positions. Here I am showing a particular tricky playing condition, where I am squeezing the bellows, and tilting the bass section as shown. In this position, the bass section tends to want to drop downward until it is parallel to the treble section. I can barely hold the bass section in place while playing Cmaj.

The third pair of pictures illustrate me playing Cmin, while squeezing the bellows. While it's just one button different from Cmaj, I can't hold the bass section in place no matter what I try, when playing Cmin. I am unable to arch my palm enough to keep enough tension on the strap to hold it. I can't actually tighten the strap anymore than it already is.

What can I do to overcome this obstacle? It's making it very hard for me to practice bass.

Thanks
Fred

 

[debra]

What can help here is to put a small block under the strap just by the holes it goes through (one at the top and one at the bottom. By increasing the distance between the strap and board at the ends the strap is pulled straighter, allowing your hand to move up and down more freely.
Here is an example of what I mean. A thicker block is needed when the accordion's feet do not overlap with the strap at all.

 

[HisNoodliness]

What can help here is to put a small block under the strap just by the holes it goes through (one at the top and one at the bottom. By increasing the distance between the strap and board at the ends the strap is pulled straighter, allowing your hand to move up and down more freely.

Ah. Now that you point it out, ha ha, quite right. I will give that a shot.

I see that the inside lining of your strap is also velvet-like. Is that the norm?

 

[debra]

Ah. Now that you point it out, ha ha, quite right. I will give that a shot.

I see that the inside lining of your strap is also velvet-like. Is that the norm?

Nowadays it is the norm to have the inside lining made of velvet (or a velvet-like material).
On this particular accordion you can see that the strap started becoming damaged on both sides because of the gap between the two feet. Instead of the whole strap resting on a support only the sides rested onto the feet. By adding the "bridge" the strap now rests on that bridge over its entire width, so it will last longer. This is just one of several accordions I have added such a bridge to. Long ago when I got new accordions from Bugari they came with such a bridge factory-installed. For some reason later instruments no longer came with this bridge. So I started 3D-printing bridges and adding them to accordions that come in for maintenance and tuning.

 

[Dingo40]

Fred,
Some thoughts about your issue
Velvet inside lining on the bass strap is very good!
In your photos, it looks like you're opening the bellows at the bottom in an inverted "V". You should open them at the top in an upright "V" formation.
Are you playing standing?
Try playing seated, with the bass side box resting and pivoting on your left thigh, bellows opening and closing at the top in a "V", and the treble board resting between your legs.
Visit your music dealer to check on your posture.
On average, the bass strap should be slightly too loose than too tight ( in order to allow your hand to slide easily up and down, as required).
You're right, you control your left hand's up and down position on the bass board by slightly arching the wrist.
Finally, the strap that goes over your right shoulder should be about two buckle holes looser than the one over your left shoulder.
I myself usually play seated on a stool which is tall enough for my thighs to slope down slightly towards my knees when seated and, also, permits me to rest my left foot on a projection. See here:

As you can see, I can use some help with posting an image!
Good luck!

 

[HisNoodliness]

So I started 3D-printing bridges and adding them to accordions that come in for maintenance and tuning.

Ah. We share one more thing in common then. I looked around for a rubbery spare part to cut into a piece like you showed. But I can’t find any. I was just about to measure my strap so I could model a rest to print out on my 3D printer.

 

[HisNoodliness]

In your photos, it looks like you're opening the bellows at the bottom in an inverted "V". You should open them at the top in an upright "V" formation.
Are you playing standing?
Try playing seated, with the bass side box resting and pivoting on your left thigh, bellows opening and closing at the top in a "V", and the treble board resting between your legs.

For some reason I have this imagine in my head that accordionists open bellows into a V, and squeeze them back in an inverted V. Perhaps that’s dramatization. I was trying all ways to open and close the bellows. And I chanced upon the most “slippery” posture, with that inverted V + squeezing + making a C minor in the middle of the bass rows.

It is true. If I squeeze bellows closed with an upright V, then it is not as bad. But chords in the middle are still slippery compared to those closer to the top or the bottom.

On average, the bass strap should be slightly too loose than too tight ( in order to allow your hand to slide easily up and down, as required).
You're right, you control your left hand's up and down position on the bass board by slightly arching the wrist.

I will report back after I try Debra’s idea.

Finally, the strap that goes over your right shoulder should be about two buckle holes looser than the one over your left shoulder.

They actually gave me two shoulder straps of mismatched length. At a glance I thought something was wrong. But then, after watching a few YouTube videos I realized that the right shoulder strap needed to be longer as you wrote, if the left leg was to be used as a support. So it all made sense now.

I actually bought a “back strap” to connect the two shoulder straps together. I felt that they were not glued to my body. And it made my accordion unstable. I actually bought technically a “chest strap”. But it works just fine as a back strap. I now feel a lot more on control of the accordion.

I myself usually play seated on a stool which is tall enough for my thighs to slope down slightly towards my knees when seated and, also, permits me to rest my left foot on a projection. See here:

As you can see, I can use some help with posting an image!
Good luck!

Another reason I bought an accordion is that I recently fractured ankle bones and am currently in a cast. I am home bound. And it’s not a bad time to pick up an CBA. So yeah, I am playing it sitting down, with my left leg propped up actually.

Thanks a lot for helping

 

[Tor]

You could also try a fingerless glove. Just thin fabric. I have something like this made out of a modal jersey. Decreasing friction may seem counterintuitive, but what happens your hand will always have a consistent amount of friction, enabling you to predict what will happen as you deliberately slide your hand.

To try it, sacrifice an old, cheap cotton sock. Cut the foot off, keep the ankle part. Cut a little hole for your thumb to keep it in place. One end should be somewhere in the middle of your palm, the other just past the bass end. Better a bit long than too short.

Oh, and best wishes on healing. I've had two legs injured at once. Not fun. Glad you can play accordion to distract yourself and have some fun.

 

[Ffingers]

.... See here:

As you can see, I can use some help with posting an image!
Good luck!

Like this?

 

[Dingo40]

Much better!
Thanks, Ffingers !

 

[HisNoodliness]

You could also try a fingerless glove. Just thin fabric. I have something like this made out of a modal jersey. Decreasing friction may seem counterintuitive, but what happens your hand will always have a consistent amount of friction, enabling you to predict what will happen as you deliberately slide your hand.

I see. Consistency is more important than raw amount of friction.

To try it, sacrifice an old, cheap cotton sock. Cut the foot off, keep the ankle part. Cut a little hole for your thumb to keep it in place. One end should be somewhere in the middle of your palm, the other just past the bass end. Better a bit long than too short.

I'll give this a try. Thanks for the idea. I also have a pair of fingerless kayak gloves. But if I understand you, the sleeve part should be longer.

Oh, and best wishes on healing. I've had two legs injured at once. Not fun. Glad you can play accordion to distract yourself and have some fun.

Thanks.

 

[debra]

For some reason I have this imagine in my head that accordionists open bellows into a V, and squeeze them back in an inverted V. Perhaps that’s dramatization. I was trying all ways to open and close the bellows. And I chanced upon the most “slippery” posture, with that inverted V + squeezing + making a C minor in the middle of the bass rows.

It is true. If I squeeze bellows closed with an upright V, then it is not as bad. But chords in the middle are still slippery compared to those closer to the top or the bottom.
...

One of the very first things you learn when you take accordion lessons is to never squeeze back in an inverted V.
Some teachers let their students start with the bottom bellow strap closed so they get used to always opening and closing in a V shape. Sadly, some of them forget to later tell their students to open the bottom bellow strap and then continue to squeeze back in the normal V shape. I know some players who have been playing the accordion their entire life, with the bottom bellow strap still closed, one of them an accordion teacher... oh boy!

 

[HisNoodliness]

One of the very first things you learn when you take accordion lessons is to never squeeze back in an inverted V.
Some teachers let their students start with the bottom bellow strap closed so they get used to always opening and closing in a V shape. Sadly, some of them forget to later tell their students to open the bottom bellow strap and then continue to squeeze back in the normal V shape. I know some players who have been playing the accordion their entire life, with the bottom bellow strap still closed, one of them an accordion teacher... oh boy!

Thanks!

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Hi all. Thanks for helping. I am a newbie in this art. I recently got myself a CBA. I've entertained this fantasy for a long time, but only made up my mind a week ago. I've been enjoying learning to play it. It's a great fun. Information from this forum was a great help to get me started.

But I ran into an issue I can't debug by myself. I can't stop my left hand from slipping under certain situations. I have uploaded a few pictures to show the left strap, as well as me playing Cmaj vs Cmin, to illustrate my specific issue.

The first two pictures illustrate the left strap. It's leather on the outside. But the inside is all velvet. I find my palm sticking to the bass board surface 20 times more than the back of my hand can ever stick to the velvet surface of the strap. I can't find a strap tightness setting that stops the back of my left hand from slipping, while allowing me to unglue my palm from the board to move between positions.

The second pair of pictures illustrate me playing Cmaj. I've learned to arch my hand to stretch the strap taut, as I see people do. But I need to tighten the strap almost all the way down to the tightest that the screw allows. But then I can barely move between positions. Here I am showing a particular tricky playing condition, where I am squeezing the bellows, and tilting the bass section as shown. In this position, the bass section tends to want to drop downward until it is parallel to the treble section. I can barely hold the bass section in place while playing Cmaj.

The third pair of pictures illustrate me playing Cmin, while squeezing the bellows. While it's just one button different from Cmaj, I can't hold the bass section in place no matter what I try, when playing Cmin. I am unable to arch my palm enough to keep enough tension on the strap to hold it. I can't actually tighten the strap anymore than it already is.

What can I do to overcome this obstacle? It's making it very hard for me to practice bass.

Thanks
Fred

The bass is difficult yes, have gotten any progress with this problem?

 

[JKJ]

I see. Consistency is more important than raw amount of friction.

I'll give this a try. Thanks for the idea. I also have a pair of fingerless kayak gloves. But if I understand you, the sleeve part should be longer.

Thanks.

Sir HisNoodleness,

After trying some alternatives I wrote about this in a recent thread, and a followup had a cheaper suggestion. I will say what I got from Liberty Bellows is prefect for me:

I posted in the thread 'Freebass accordion left hand position'
https://www.accordionists.info/threads/freebass-accordion-left-hand-position.10319/post-114910

Best wishes with your ankle recovery. I’ve recently injured my left shoulder and it may be months before I can even pick up the accordion, let alone use the bellows! Not much fun. As an accordion beginner, I’ve switched to the melodica for now to continue to work on the right hand while recovering from surgery.

JKJ

 

[Joakim Monsen]

What can help here is to put a small block under the strap just by the holes it goes through (one at the top and one at the bottom. By increasing the distance between the strap and board at the ends the strap is pulled straighter, allowing your hand to move up and down more freely.
Here is an example of what I mean. A thicker block is needed when the accordion's feet do not overlap with the strap at all.

I have used some markers on both sides of the bass-strap as seen on this image. Now I used my own 3D-printed parts. This is a good Idea and heard it from Øivind Farmen.

 

[debra]

I have used some markers on both sides of the bass-strap as seen on this image. Now I used my own 3D-printed parts. This is a good Idea and heard it from Øivind Farmen.

The trick with the markers does increase the required length of the bass strap by quite a bit. The "bridge" between the accordion's feet not so much. To keep the accordion stable on its feet it may also help to grind down the small buds on the feet and then add rubber feet (easily found in a hardware store).

Alternatively you can also print new feed with a larger stub...

 

[JerryPH]

I have used some markers on both sides of the bass-strap as seen on this image. Now I used my own 3D-printed parts. This is a good Idea and heard it from Øivind Farmen.

Is that one yours? I saw the stepped rows on the left hand, just like Øivind's Zero Sette... only other accordion I saw with this lovely trait.

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Is that one yours? I saw the stepped rows on the left hand, just like Øivind's Zero Sette... only other accordion I saw with this lovely trait.

It's mine yes, and many accordionists in Norway has this now in the bass. It's quite handy, makes me play the minor and 7th chord-basses with my thumb. And also as Farmen says in his video, play mirrored when in free-bass mode so I just have to learn one thing.

 

[JerryPH]

Yes indeed! I had said if I was 40 years younger and starting over again THIS would be the system I would choose. As it is I'm sticking to my trusty MIII.