CBA's C system slurs/grace notes????

[losthobos]

Any guidance gratefully accepted....
been looking at some hammond b3/blues piano styles.... noticeably the flat 3rd or 5th are slid up to the 3rd or 5th....on piano or organ easy fingering as slides off flatted 3rd key onto 3rd (assuming black to white key) on the C system proving difficult as 'uphill' motion playing up the stepped keyboard so impossible to play as one finger slur.... playing the slur down the board means slurring from the 3rd row o the 1st and takes time and runs risk of hitting something on the 2nd row unintentionally....
So , any suggestions for best fingering to go from flat 3rd or 5th up to natural...
hope that makes some kind of sense....thanks

 

[debra]

Slurs by sliding off one key onto another are a last resort on every keyboard type. You have more control over exactly how one note transitions into the next when you use two different fingers. What typically happens is that the first note stops just before the next one starts and that's not what a slur means. You need more control over the "overlap" in key press to have the perfect "legato" sound. The lower the notes (especially in the L register) the more overlap you need in the keypress to produce the same legato sound.
It is quite possible that I am exaggerating the problem. I do play the bass (basson) accordion a lot and when going towards the lowest notes on the L register (yes it has registers) the required overlap is sometimes about half a second (no kidding!) so sliding from one key to the next with the same finger would definitely not work.

 

[losthobos]

Perhaps its gonna be an inherent problem on the accordion then ... But them cool Hammond b3 players sound mighty fine to me just slipping off a black key onto a white...guess thats why they wanna play in C F or G mainly...
Anyways would you suggest better sound/fingering technique can be achieved by playing flatted note on first row up to natural on 2nd row or is flattened note on 4th row to natural on 2nd row better move...sorry I'm self taught so just trying to avoid teaching myself a bad habit...

 

[debra]

Perhaps its gonna be an inherent problem on the accordion then ... But them cool Hammond b3 players sound mighty fine to me just slipping off a black key onto a white...guess thats why they wanna play in C F or G mainly...
Anyways would you suggest better sound/fingering technique can be achieved by playing flatted note on first row up to natural on 2nd row or is flattened note on 4th row to natural on 2nd row better move...sorry Im self taught so just trying to avoid teaching myself a bad habit...

Whether one is better than the other depends on the longer run in which this slur occurs. In all cases it is better to play the slur with two different fingers than with one finger that slides.

 

[losthobos]

at 5.25????

 

[maugein96]

As Paul De Bra says you may have to work with two fingers to get the desired effect with a C system CBA. On a B system you could do it with one finger as you are going downhill rather than up.

Keep persevering, and you should be able to work it out. You may find your fingers will find the answer themselves. I know you are a big chord player and the fingering using two digits for the slurs might not be viable in certain situations. You may need to invert the chords, but to be honest I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to that sort of thing. As a 4 row player if I cannot work it out in 10 minutes I'm off to pastures new.

I'm sure you'll get it in time.

 

[george garside]

I would go with the 2 finger method every time with the possible exeption that if two physically rather than musically adjacent notes are to be played in sequence sliding a finger across may in some circumstances be possible and some may be able to do it better than others

George (sitting on the fence!)

 

[losthobos]

Monsieur maugien gas grasped my point...on a b system its possible, on a keyboard in certain keys uts possible....its not a cheat...its a desired effect...but on a C system its a conundrum...
It does seem easier with the root on the third row and flipping one finger down from minor 3rd to major on first row (say hey of F) than it dies with root on first row and playing either uphill for slur or indeed down from 4th to 2nd row...
I'll persevere...thanks for input

 

[dan]

Unless I'm missing some subtlety, the first part of the lick in the video can be played on outer rows with thumb on low C, 2 on fsharp, 3 on G, 5 on C. Add a flick of the wrist and a bellows accent to get that articulation

I'm a beginner on cba but braved the jam session last night and had a lot of fun improvising on blues tunes so am not inclined to worry about what's easier on c vs b vs pa.

 

[debra]

Monsieur maugien gas grasped my point...on a b system its possible, on a keyboard in certain keys uts possible....its not a cheat...its a desired effect...but on a C system its a conundrum...
It does seem easier with the root on the third row and flipping one finger down from minor 3rd to major on first row (say hey of F) than it dies with root on first row and playing either uphill for slur or indeed down from 4th to 2nd row...
Ill persevere...thanks for input

Actually, on the flat C-system (rather than the more common stepped one) you can slide up and down just as easily. Some things are really easier to do on my Morino Artiste XS which is a flat C-system (common in Switzerland) than on my other accordions that are a stepped C-system.

 

[maugein96]

I had forgotten about the "Flat C" system. There is currently a Coop La Armonica Record Swiss model for sale here in Scotland. I was interested and made enquiry over a year ago, but the dealer wouldn't accept one of my 4 rows as a trade in unless I gave it away for a song. It is a 123 bass, which I'd never heard of before. He still has it listed, and by his own admission he was struggling to sell it due to its unusual (for Scotland) construction, as well as the fact that it was a bit cumbersome.

 

[debra]

...It is a 123 bass, which Id never heard of before...

123 bass is nothing special. Nowadays most 120 bass accordions simply have a 20x6 layout (as a parallellogram), but some older instruments had a different layout just because the designer thought it was prettier. I am showing a link to a 123 bass layout (Morino IV M). Three rows have 20 buttons and 3 have 21.
http://www.magicclassicaccordions.c...9C10/1DE4/10BC/4CAF/AC10/3D29/30C9/ae8a_1.jpg>
There are also 117 bass instruments with three rows of 19 buttons and three of 20.

 

[losthobos]

A flat top.....what an excellent idea....that could be slippery fun...great suggestion...
Dan u hadn't meant post to be a this is better than that vs debate....i just hear something that excites me then I wish to emulate on the only system I own.. A C system CBA....be great if you can post some if your blues jam so I can see how you're managing it...many thanks

 

[JerryPH]

123 bass is nothing special. Nowadays most 120 bass accordions simply have a 20x6 layout (as a parallellogram), but some older instruments had a different layout just because the designer thought it was prettier.

I dont know how functional it would really be, but it definitely is prettier!

 

[maugein96]

Heres a photo of the one I was considering, but decided against.

It carries the lettering Ackermann Zurich on the bass side. Im led to believe Ackermann is/was a department store?

 

[dan]

Heres my rough attempt at the first lick from the tutorial you posted.
Hammond lick
My process was to play the destination chord, then find another available finger to add the grace note. 1, 2 -->3+5.
The grace note is slurred but the rest of the phrase isnt, so you can even break the rules and hop with the thumb1, 1-->2+4
If the grace note involves a jump from third row to first row (i.e. B-->C on a F blues lick) Id try a tuck-under with the thumb. 2-->1 or 3-->1
If all else fails, try a different grace note. Seems to me that if you play it fast enough, a whole step or minor-third slide could substitute for a half-step slide.
Good luck! Share some of your riffs with us once youve got it figured out.

 

[losthobos]

Looks like Johnny Meijer has his slurs down to the button...