Chords to start with

[Buttons]

A bit of a follow on from the Jarvo daft question which it isn’t of cours, daft that ise........His thread is largely way above my head but is related.
Question is......If you find a tune which you like, how do you decide which set of chords do you try out. I am assuming that there a simple starting point and I know rules are there to be broken. Say key of C so start with C chords but where to progress to next. Except that isn’t necessarily right or the only way. When starting out I was told that something was ‘just busking’ but why not if you get pleasure from playing and possibly giving pleasure to others, so if you are not a super duper musician you have to start somewhere with simple things and not look down on anyone. The aim is to play something and perhaps improve in time.
My thought on this started when I thought I would try and play ‘Happy birthday’ for my Granddaughter in a week or so. It is simple looking so what is the starting point for choosing chords. Something which relates....to something, a bit of variation so not boring monotonous beat, with highs and lows, and not too dominant either.
It is a question for any/all music. Is there a good source to refer to which starts my learning process off. I Googled a bit but not too successful in my search. Does anyone know of idiots guides......please. A thought in the right direction would be much aoppreciated.
A quote from one I worked with who said ;if you cannot do it completely you shouldn’t do it at all’. Well we would just stayin bed all day wouldn’t we and never do anything?
Best wishes to everyone.

 

[Pippa]

Not really sure I fully understand the question - you mean which chords to pick to build up a tune? If that's the question then a good starting point no matter the key is the 1, 4 and 5 chords (of the major scale), so when you're in C, start with C, F and G. The stradella bass system is conveniently built so for any "1", (eg C) the "4" (eg F) is directly below and the "5" (eg G) directly above so you don't have to make big jumps.

If that's not what you're asking and it was too simplified, I apologise {}


Edit: George says the same thing in more detail below!

 

[george garside]

the simplest way of providing accompanying chords is to learn the 3 chord trick which is pparticularly easy on stradella bass. Using ;your example of playing a tune in the key of C you start using the bass button C ( the one with the indentation) and the one next to it on the diagonal row i.e. C major chord. The other two bass notes/chords to complete the 3 chord trick are in stradella terms the diagonal row above ( which in this example is G & Gmaj, and the one on the diagonal row below which is F bass and F major chord.

In other words you only need 3 diagonal rows and this works for any key. Its always the diagonal row of the keynote , the row above and the row below. so if playing in D it would be D diagonal, A diagonal and G diagonal.

Next question is how to decide when to change from ,say, C to G or F. The easiest way is to start with C and keep playing it , either as just a major chord or as an um pa rhythm with bassnote and chord until it sounds crap -- then try the one above i.e G - if that doesn't sound better try the one below i.e. F. Learning and practising the 3 chord trick in this way ( by listening) makes the choice intuitive so that you can 'busk ' the bass without a need for dots or other tablature.

The 3 chord trick is just the beginning and once it is mastered it can be 'extended' go onto the 3 chord trick +1 e.e. instead of going up from C to G try jumping over G and playing D et etc

Another very easy , in fact totally free of charge, way of enhancing the bass is to stop playing it so the emphasis is thrown on to a particular bit of the melody

But the 3 chord trick played well with a nice light touch on the bass sounds good and many are happy to stick to it for a long time.

george

 

[Soulsaver]

Hi Buttons. The above advice is all good and you can use it to experiment with this as a helping start.

Happy Birthday in key of C shows basses above the notes. You could disseminate this into the version you were planning?

Its a waltz (3/4 time) so you (can) play C CM CM where it says C. F= F FM FM etc.

If G7 is tuff at this stage, use G GM GM

Sorry if oversimplified? Or misunderstood...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=x_VmUsaYF8Se0wWY6oG4Ag&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAA

 

[pentaprism]

Let's use the 3-chord trick. For example, if the piece is in C major, play CM, FM, and GM (or G7).

These three chords contain ALL the notes in the key:

CM: C, E, G
FM: F, A, C
GM: G, B, D (if G7: G, B, D, F).

Combined, they cover all possible notes in key C major: C, D, E, F, G, A, B.

For each bar, take the note of the strong beat (e.g. the first beat in 3/4) and for that bar, play the chord containing that note. If there are more than one chord containing the note, pick the one that contains also the notes of the weaker beats of the same bar. Do the same thing for the next bar.

At the end of each "music paragraph," or the end of the piece, try to end with the fifth chord (GM, G7) and then the tonic (CM). That gives the feeling of resolution.

The version below ends with the 7th note (B) so I suggest ending with G chord. It gives the feeling of unfinish (and many more.....).

 

[Glenn]

My total oversimplification of how I approach these things is as follows:
I learn the tune I have in my head on the right hand and hum to myself the bass notes which go nicely with it in my head.
When I can do that a few times I note down what note names these bass notes are.
Then I play the note in the left hand with the chord and keep changing the chord by cycling through major, minor and 7th until I hear which one fits. With practice this last stage becomes pretty obvious.
Thus I end up with a piece of paper with the chord sequence and the tune in my head.
Next stage is to write it all down on manuscript paper but I am normally too lazy for that.

 

[dunlustin]

It occurs to me that with time we forget how much we know.
Much of the above assumes quite a lot of musical baggage which the original question suggests Buttons doesn't have.
Quote
" I thought I would try and play ‘Happy birthday’ for my Granddaughter in a week"
Given the time scale and the purpose I would say learn the tune, expect family to be a)surprised b) dead chuffed that the "ancestor" made the effort
c) aching to sing along - so plan to play it at least twice. (Aaah, one more time!!)
My only advice is make sure you REALLY know it because you can expect to lose at least 30% of your ability on the day. This may cause intense embarrassment.
Apart from that don't listen to the doom-mongers at work and buy almost any beginners accordion book which will introduce you to how accompaniment works in a logical and progressive way.

 

[george garside]

its a very good idea to play just the treble for forthcoming birthday as so doing reduces the potential for cock ups by 50%! There are times when not playing the bass can sound better anyway, irrespective of experience.

My posting about experimenting to find the best of 3 chords is aimed particulary at the many box players who play entirely by ear and manage perfectly well without any theoretical knowledge of music, and is a way of enabling the 3 chord trick to become totally intuitive i.e. no conscious thought needed!

Learning so to do is also a very useful skill for those ardent dotists who sieze up totally if written instructions for everything are not provided. Developing the intuitive byearist approach should at least enable them to play tunes where only the melody line of dots is provided eg from fiddle or pipe written stuff without having a dicky fit as to what are or are not the ''correct'' bass
george

 

[jarvo]

This is going a bit off topic and probably not what Mr Buttons had in mind..........to be honest.

Buttons....here's a thing ....for about 20 squids get a ukulele and a chord book of songs.......

the ukulele is very simple to get to grips with ...the chords are shown in little boxes and are mostly p easy to form ...especially the majors and most of the minors......and you can sit and quietly strum just using your forefinger and little down strokes work out the chords , singing or in my case ,grumbling the tune in a corner quietly not disturbing anyone with a honking parping accordion trying to find the chords.....

and then remember or write down your chord sequence and then follow what Glenn says above ....and George......but personally I would try the uke thing....and then you have another instrument up your sleeve....and they are enormous fun ....and you do NOT have to play George Formby if you do not want to....

But just for info....these are the groups of chords which hang together.........G C D in groups of three

C F G

D G A

E A B

A D E

F Bb C

B E F#

to add some variation you can add a 7th,Minor or diminished..................The groups of three don't always appear in that order, but they always hang
together and there will sometimes need to be a bit of messing about to get the right group.....but generally they tend to start the song on the first chord note of the scale.....

This is a very simple but extremely effective way of getting the brakes off and getting into the music pool........and getting some tunes under your belt........in fact it may be an idea to go and get a chord song book (do you read music even if only the melody line ?) either one for guitar or uke .....look at a few and pick ones with (no offence ) the simpler chords and with the most songs that you know.........and then you can work out the melody or play it off the stave....just an idea.....

And George I want to take offence and exception (light heartedly of course :lol: ) to this term "Three Chord Trick".....the term (not you) somehow diminishes , denigrates and derides the music that is played using "only" three chords.

Someone on here once wrote "talentless three chord music ".....tut tut.... :roll:

There is some powerful and expressive music from all genres (and you can even play Classical with three chords) that use a simpler structure than that of the lofty and somewhat supercilious Umpty Tum and Twelvty chords, Numpty of which must be Diminished 17ths in descending chromatic harmonically modulated syncopation......or if not then it isn't difficult to play and therefore cannot be considered serious music !!

Just saying :lol:

M.Y. Pennyworth

 

[Buttons]

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. I will digest it all and come back in a day or two with a full reply. So much to consider and good stuff. I see a way forward and thank you. Best wishes to you all.

 

[Soulsaver]

Actually for the 'happy birthday' I agree with George's suggestion that the bass doesn't add a lot to the ditty, and for the two handed additional pressure on a 'big occasion' you may consider giving the bass a miss.

 

[donn]

The version below

But I dont think thats how its commonly played, is it? At the risk of giving it away, and also exposed to some chance of error since I dont have my accordion or anything in hand while typing this, Id say C G G C C F G C.

As for how youd figure this out? Well, theres nothing for it but, as George says, to keep trying things until they sound right. That could be frustrating and error prone at the beginning, but its part of getting better.

Im learning a couple of tunes recently as the side is learning a new dance or two, and the chords for them are pretty straightforward, but ... theres a spot towards the end where the printed version wants me to go to the IV (C) when my reflex is to go to V (D), and that has plagued me a bit. It sounds OK either way, but I think it may be a matter of regional style - the tune is apparently considered to be Irish, and my ear for such things is more used to English tunes, or at least tunes of whatever origin played Morris style. Anyway, among this repertoire its my impression that the chord interpretations may vary quite a bit for a particular tune -- and rarely would they be accountable to any simple theory, like 1st note = root. (Which actually seems quite rare in the music I happen to have on hand.)

 

[george garside]

as much of trad/folk/morris etc etc music was written as a simple melody line or maybe not even written at all, instead being passes on and around 'by ear' the question of applying theory to any superimposed chord accompaniment simply does not apply!

As Donn has said there are different versions of the way tunes are played whilst retaining their recognisable origin and develop into many versions and styles of playing ----and all are totally valid, although sosme may be a wee bit more valid than others!!

The only 'rule'' , ''guideline'' or whatever is that if it sounds right it is right ( but sometimes it is useful to get a second opinion!)

Trying to apply theory to trad/folk music defeats the whole object of the exercise which is to retain the original spirit of spontaneity - this is not the same as the classical brigade being naughty and ''improvising'' - it is playing a 'tune' not a 'piece' (of what?) in the spirit and musicality of a tradition.

The agonising over correctness and the depths of musical theory is best left to those who genuinely enjoy the 'classical' genre

george :evil: