Considering Purchasing a Harmoneon

[ganelon]

After reading a bit online about harmoneons, the idea of a free bass instrument with an identical button layout to the treble side sounds appealing. I know it's a rare type of instrument, and looking online these were the only two I was able to find. I currently have a c-system 120 bass accordion with Stradella bass only which I had shipped from Liberty Bellows. Another reason I'm looking at a harmoneon is that the converter accordions that I see are all more expensive, around $5,000 minimum.

Fratelli C-Griff MIII Freebass

Knopfakkordeon C-Griff

www.musik-center.de

Bugari Big button Freebass, 3.199,00 €

Freebass instrument. Revised and new tuning.

www.akkordeonfreund.de

Ultimately I'd like to be able to work toward playing Bach fugues, inventions, etc and other classical music. I was wondering if there was anyone here with any opinions on either of the two harmoneons I found and the sites they are being sold on. I would appreciate any advice.

 

[Pipemajor]

Sorry I can't answer your questions, but I am also interested in getting a harmoneon.
I am driving through France next month and there are a couple near to my route that I could look at.
I'm not sure what the difference is between a harmoneon and a freebass cba.
If anyone can tell me I would be gratefull, thanks

 

[losthobos]

@Pipemajor
...any chance you could pick a harmoneon up for me too.....looks ideal for me.....

 

[Pipemajor]

Might be possible. I was looking on Leboncoin. depends whats still available and where in France

 

[petch]

I'd love to try one!

 

[losthobos]

I think one with low bass notes at top mirroring the C system of treble side would make a real nice combo....tritones would be lovely option for Dom chords with minimum of hand movement...
Interesting...
@stickista ..you ever considered this option....I think Barry Harris approach would fall instantly beneath fingertips .

 

[ganelon]

The other option I see for playing classical music is to get a converter bayan. I can find three row converter bayans online for around the $600-900 dollar range, but I wonder what quality you get for that price, and it would be more difficult to play with only three rows. I couldn't find much in the mid range price for converter accordions. It seems to be either three row ones for under $1,000 or five row ones that are all over $10k.

 

[tcabot]

If you want small & freebass-only - look at bandoneons. There are bisonoric and unisonoric versions.
For large & free-bass only there's no competition with the Moschino, if you can find one.

Whether it's same layout left & right or not, makes little difference in my opinion. You will have to spend a lot of time playing scales & arpeggios anyway. Just because a mirrored system looks easy on paper, doesn't mean it plays the same. Furthermore, on accordions, RH uses 5-fingers and hovers over the keyboard, left is limited to 4 and is anchored to the box. You end up with different techniques even if the note layout is the same.

 

[tcabot]

to get a converter bayan

Old professional models will almost certainly set you back a lot more than £1,000. Will be very heavy & the old converter mechs can be worn if it was played professionally for decades. Treble mechs too, but they are somewhat easier to replace.

Something like an old converter-equipped "Yasnaya Polyana" or "Rossia" will be very good, e.g. one here, but way out of your stated price range.

Баян Россия

Отличное состояние. Переклеены клапана. Обесшумлена механика. Юпитеровские кнопки в правой. 3 подбородника. 2900$

zenano.com.ua

If not for the weight, these boxes, imho, can rival any modern high-end accordion because of the really high-quality & sweet-sounding reeds. The mechs are very dated compared to anything modern though!

Perhaps, the only budget option worth considering is a "Rubin" (or its predecessor, "Vostok") made by the Kirov factory. It's a mass-produced student-level converter model from ~ 1960s. The reed timbre is very sweet, and for a Soviet factory-made jobbie the build quality is reasonable. Reed quality is almost acceptable. The big problem with them is the horrible RHS keyboard (needs a complete rebuild & much lighter springs to make it playable), and the LHS converter mechs are very clunky and the switch can jam. The box itself can typically be had for under $500 after shipping from Eastern Europe & taxes, but getting it serviced & brought up to a playable standard by a local accordion repairman can set you back an extra $1,000.
From "Rubin"(older model), "Rubin 5" (from memory, 7/8 size), "Rubin 6" & "Rubin 7" I believe the "5" is considered a more successful model. I might be wrong.
Same issue as with the pro models - if it was used by a student to practice every day for a decade, it will be worn to death.

However, you most likely don't want a 3-row RH keyboard if you are playing B system. It's very limiting compared to 5-rows.
When you add up the pennies of buying, importing to US & servicing a Rubin, you're approaching the price of a reasonable condition pre-war bandoneon that, imho, will be a much better choice.

If in doubt, avoid anything else mass-produced in a Soviet factory - 99% of the stuff is horrendous & many boxes are not worth the cost of petrol to take them to the tip.

PS if you do decide to go for the "Rossia" in the link, I am not linked to the seller in any way, but I do know that the chap is a very highly respected fettler.

 

[tcabot]

Anyway, moving on to the harmoneons.
Never tried one, so not speaking from direct experience, however:
If LHS is more spaced out than stradella buttons, that's not a good thing. Your LH movement is restricted & only has 4 useable fingers. A more compact FB set-up is better.
Large buttons & bigger spacing can also mess up your ability to hit the Stradella buttons on your chord bass box. For chord bass I love the large spaced-out bass buttons on the melodeon, but after playing them for a couple weeks, stradella feels extremely small & overcrowded.

Crosio ad says "single tone" bass. Does that mean one voice in the bass but two in the treble? Might not be a good idea.
A critical thing for fb, imho, is the left-right balance. Do everything you can to try before you buy.

Oh, and fb squeezebox is a demanding mistress, whatever shape or form it takes. I found that if I skipped a day or two of practice, the technique was falling apart very rapidly. The main reason why I decided to give up (for now at least) on fb is simply because I don't have enough free time to dedicate to practice.

 

[ganelon]

@tcabot Thank you for the detailed response. I will look out for unisonoric bandoneons. The bugari harmoneon does look like it has 2 voices in the bass. But like you said the bigger buttons might be a disadvantage. If I could find a c system converter for the same price as the bugari harmoneon I think that would be ideal.

Maybe this listing would be good to look into?

https://reverb.com/item/41315522-mondial-c-sysmtem-converter-accordion-black

 

[stickista]

After reading a bit online about harmoneons, the idea of a free bass instrument with an identical button layout to the treble side sounds appealing. I know it's a rare type of instrument, and looking online these were the only two I was able to find. I currently have a c-system 120 bass accordion with Stradella bass only which I had shipped from Liberty Bellows. Another reason I'm looking at a harmoneon is that the converter accordions that I see are all more expensive, around $5,000 minimum.

Fratelli C-Griff MIII Freebass

Knopfakkordeon C-Griff

www.musik-center.de

Bugari Big button Freebass, 3.199,00 €

Freebass instrument. Revised and new tuning.

www.akkordeonfreund.de

Ultimately I'd like to be able to work toward playing Bach fugues, inventions, etc and other classical music. I was wondering if there was anyone here with any opinions on either of the two harmoneons I found and the sites they are being sold on. I would appreciate any advice.

Re the Fratelli, They don’t say which direction the low notes on the free bass side go. Normally C system Free bass is mirrored… low notes at the top. But many harmoneums (sp?) have low note towards the floor.
Big difference.

 

[ganelon]

After doing some more searching online, I'm considering these three models. One of them is a harmoneon and the other two are converters. If anyone would be able to offer an opinion which option would be preferable I would appreciate it. The Mondial converter has the most registers and a full 120 bass but it seems like more of a gamble since it is older and is being sold from an individual seller. Thank you for the advice.

Bugari Big button Freebass, 3.199,00 €

Freebass instrument. Revised and new tuning.

www.akkordeonfreund.de

Walther Meisterklasse 373 O Converter, 2.900,00 €

Used instrument including back and straps.Converter instrument.

www.akkordeonfreund.de

https://reverb.com/item/41315522-mondial-c-sysmtem-converter-accordion-black

 

[losthobos]

That Bugari looks absolutely gorgeous and their build quality has always been fantastic.... however my alarm bells are screaming at the 444hz A tuning....
The Mondail is in Canada and looks perhaps what you are searching for...and as from Canada may be "tax exempt"...but don't take my word for that .
On a huge plus the Walther is able to switch between melody and stradella bass end....and is a sweet lightweight 72bass....so not a bathtub to handle....
Choices choices choices

 

[ganelon]

Would the 444hz tuning just make it difficult to play with other people or is there something else about the tuning that makes it concerning?

 

[losthobos]

If you're not playing with others or along to backing tracks it'll be fine....
I had a Bugari at 446hz, was a problem for the violin to tune that high.....never mind the untunable piano....was a lovely accordion though

 

[tcabot]

difficult to play

You'll be wildly out of tune.
Unless it's a guitar/mandolin, where you can easily re-tune a couple hz up.