Digital Accordions vs digital keyboards - pricing

[Mike K]

I am getting close to buying a Roland Rd-2000 stage piano. Amazing the difference in price between a digital piano and a digital accordion. $2600 vs about $6000 and to me the piano has a lot more features. Is Roland just taking advantage of accordion players because it has no competition in that market whereas in the digital keyboard market there are a lot of players.

I am assuming a lot of the electronics is very similar between and FR-8x and the RD-2000 although since the RD-2000 is newer it probably has better electronics and sound samples. I would like to buy a V accordion but having trouble justifying it.....yes it is cheaper than a good accordion but a good acoustic upright piano will run you $12000 also, so I really do not buy that argument. To me, they just have a monopoly and they are using it to their benefit.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Won't the fact that keyboards are made in huge quantities have something to do with it? You go into a music shop and there are not usually any digital accordions in stock whereas keyboards are on display by the skip load?

 

[Mike K]

I thought of that as one potential reason......I do not know how many digital accordions are made or sold. Of course, more would sell if the price point dropped. An FR8X at say $3000 would probably sell twice as many units. I know I would likely buy one. Accordions in the US are still a "dead" instrument in many locations. I live in Central VA and I have to travel 100s of miles to find a store that even sells new accordions. Used to be a Hohner Center in the area but they closed doors a few years ago. Did not sell instruments even there though....more of a distribution center.

 

[Keymn]

Paying $6000+ for a accordion or Any type of keyboard is quite an investment. The reason I invested in fr4x is smaller, light weight and midi connection. My clients,...they like the visual. I think A good keyboard has great accordion sounds, but bellow expression gives more the real feel.

I see Korg just came out with a new arranger, PA1000. Probably 1/2 cost of the Korg PA3x, PA4x. Maybe little less functionality but something I would consider.

Note' the only reason I am sold on Korg pa series is the Songbook functionality. Load up to 10,000 song performances in my Korg PA3x, has windows driver and easy interface to iPad apps. Your preference may be different...
Although, the new Roland pianos has Bluetooth functionality built in. Sounds interesting to me...!

 

[Mike K]

I am not looking at the Roland RD2000 as a replacement for the accordion. I have a Giulietti accordion I will still use. The Roland would be to replace a 25 + year old Technics piano. It still works great but its features and sounds are very limited. I also have a cheaper Yamaha SO3 keyboard I use to layer sounds on top of it but it is about 20 years old too. Sound quality has gotten much nicer. Still trying to get my piano skills up to where they need to be to play a 3 hour job though. Trained on the accordion.....so the left hand is not what it needs to be unfortunately. Practicing my scales and arpeggios now, trying to build up that left hand strength and skill. My digital technology capability is also very limited. I never learned much about all the capabilities these instruments and software can do. Been concentrating on playing an instrument. Need to do both. any recommendations on resources for the technical sides of digital keyboards/accordions is appreciated.

 

[JerryPH]

... the difference in price between a digital piano and a digital accordion. $2600 vs about $6000...

An FR8X at say $3000 would probably sell twice as many units. I know I would likely buy one.

Lets not forget that Roland is in business for one sole reason... to make money. Lets say that even dropping the price in half would double the sales (assuming the cost to make an 8X is $0, which it is obviously not). That means DOUBLE the work for zero increase in profits. Would YOU do that?? Roland would have to be foolish to drop the price, especially since they are pretty much selling every 4X and 8X they currently make and then some, because the market can bear the quite inflated price of digital accordions, and there are several good reasons:
- people are willing to pay the higher price and Roland can barely keep up(*)
- they are the best digital accordion on the market (besides the even MORE expensive Bugari EVO, which is an electronic duplicate, but costs an even higher price... a $1000-$1500 premium over the 8x!)

* Right now, sales of the 8X are so good that Roland is delaying the release of the 9X! This is mostly due to the big success of the Bugari Evo, which is quite popular everywhere in the world... just NOT in North America because the Bugari EVO team is basically concentrating everywhere else, just not here and openly ignoring us. These people have some very strange ways of doing business... like releasing a piss-poor website, making a huge announcement and then not even releasing a price list until 6 months later... like NOT promoting it in the USA/Canada until well over a year later, and this being only ONE person in a few US cities, and now, well over a year later, there is still NO EVO dealer in Canada, and I think to date none in the USA too. Thats just sad.

These people are successful in spite of themselves and the marketing mistakes they are making left and right are ones that first year college business students wouldnt do! :lol:

Theyre selling, and because they are selling, prices are what they are. Prices are not set by % margins, but by what the market can bear to pay. If no one bought an 8X, they would either stop making them or reduce the price... but neither is happening.

 

[torch]

* Right now, sales of the 8X are so good that Roland is delaying the release of the 9X! This is mostly due to the big success of the Bugari Evo,

Is that really so? Maybe thats the reason Roland has not written a PC editor for it. Please dont get me wrong; Ive owned just about every single V accordion model; FR1b, FR1x, FR3, FR3x, FR18, FR7x, and FR4x. I had ordered the FR8x Dallape but quickly cancelled after a friend with an 8x shared a few things with me. Roland has no excuse for not coming out with a PC editor for their flagship model especially if it still sells well. They should have written a PC editor for the 8x before they did for the FR4x, which I own.

I didnt think that the 8x sells well these days. Ive seen quite a few people selling their 8x due to the weight mainly.

The Evo a little lighter, better looking, real keyboard, and smoother bellows actions is interesting. I have not seen one here in the US. I am going to try one one during my upcoming trip overseas.

FR9x by Roland? Probably not. This year at NAMM Roland didn’t even have a single V accordion on display not even the new FR4x except for a Roland employee’ personal 4x that was laying around on the floor between the FP90 and other Roland digital pianos. I kind of felt that maybe this is the last model...

If we are going to see something new and better than the Roland V accordion, it might be by the very Italians who invented and built the 1st V accordion. We know the majority of the Roland accordion engineers are now with Dexibell.

 

[Keymn]

I am not looking at the Roland RD2000 as a replacement for the accordion. I have a Giulietti accordion I will still use. The Roland would be to replace a 25 + year old Technics piano. It still works great but its features and sounds are very limited. I also have a cheaper Yamaha SO3 keyboard I use to layer sounds on top of it but it is about 20 years old too. Sound quality has gotten much nicer. Still trying to get my piano skills up to where they need to be to play a 3 hour job though. Trained on the accordion.....so the left hand is not what it needs to be unfortunately. Practicing my scales and arpeggios now, trying to build up that left hand strength and skill. My digital technology capability is also very limited. I never learned much about all the capabilities these instruments and software can do. Been concentrating on playing an instrument. Need to do both. any recommendations on resources for the technical sides of digital keyboards/accordions is appreciated.

I purchased a Korg Microarranger when it first came out. A nice arranger keyboard weighing only ten pounds. Although keys are narrow. 6 months ago the Mother board died. Not worth fixing as the part cost was close to purchase price. Kind of makes you wonder about the electronics these days. Bought a TV with 5 year warranty, dies 2 days after warranty expires. The problem was bad solder joints on video board. Which was a typical Known problem?
Your old keyboards, still working! I just threw in the dump my PSR Yamaha keyboard. Not because of the electronics but 20 years of abuse in the airline luggage compartment.
Those that have technical capabilities and modify factory sounds into something awesome, are blessed. A good selling point in purchasing VAccordion.

You are doing the right thing, concentrating on your music skills. After all, the audience should be more impressed with music skills and songs you play, not your equipment.
20 years ago I bought a $300 acoustic accordion from a Pawn shop. I was just testing the market in South Florida as an accordion Player. Got good reviews (I was even a little rusty). Inspired me to purchase Fr7 VAccordion. Passed up later models until this spring, purchasing fr4x. I was breaking my back with the full size accordion. As for me, this may be my last accordion I purchased. Unless it accidentally drops off a cliff or I trip and fall at a pool party gig!

 

[Keymn]

* Right now, sales of the 8X are so good that Roland is delaying the release of the 9X! This is mostly due to the big success of the Bugari Evo,

Is that really so? Maybe thats the reason Roland has not written a PC editor for it. Please dont get me wrong; Ive owned just about every single V accordion model; FR1b, FR1x, FR3, FR3x, FR18, FR7x, and FR4x. I had ordered the FR8x Dallape but quickly cancelled after a friend with an 8x shared a few things with me. Roland has no excuse for not coming out with a PC editor for their flagship model especially if it still sells well. They should have written a PC editor for the 8x before they did for the FR4x, which I own.

I didnt think that the 8x sells well these days. Ive seen quite a few people selling their 8x due to the weight mainly.

The Evo a little lighter, better looking, real keyboard, and smoother bellows actions is interesting. I have not seen one here in the US. I am going to try one one during my upcoming trip overseas.

FR9x by Roland? Probably not. This year at NAMM Roland didn’t even have a single V accordion on display not even the new FR4x except for a Roland employee’ personal 4x that was laying around on the floor between the FP90 and other Roland digital pianos. I kind of felt that maybe this is the last model...

If we are going to see something new and better than the Roland V accordion, it might be by the very Italians who invented and built the 1st V accordion. We know the majority of the Roland accordion engineers are now with Dexibell.

As far as the editor program, Korg had this software out since the early pa models over 10 years ago. Works on all PA models. As newer keyboard models came out, it was quickly updated. But as Torch mentioned in another Forum, Korg Is the only brand with a windows driver.

 

[torch]

As far as the editor program, Korg had this software out since the early pa models over 10 years ago. Works on all PA models. As newer keyboard models came out, it was quickly updated. But as Torch mentioned in another Forum, Korg Is the only brand with a windows driver.

It is not just Korg but many many inexpensive midi keyboard controllers do come with PC editors (and special drivers if necessary) to change and save settings. What I meant by the Korg driver is a Windows driver for their Bluetooth devices such as the Microkey Air series and NanoKontrol Blutooth models.

Mike K, If you are not in a hurry, you might want to wait and look around for a used V accordion. Too many people around me have sold their 8x due to its bulkiness and weight. Some are trying to replace their 3x with the 4x. Even a 3x combined with your RD2000 or a good sound little module would be really something. The RD2000 is a fine instrument. I tried it at NAMM this year. The action feels so good. Tons of great sounds and amazing features. All that for just about half the cost of the FR4x. Not only that, youve got so many choices. I liked the FP90, too. Then the Casio PX560. A fine keyboard action, and ivory feel. Casios piano sound has been very good for many years and it gets only better. You can say this is not your grand kids Casio. Yet, some people complain about the price tag $1,200!!!!!!!! What kind of accordion can you get for $1,200? Even though by now I am used to the high prices of accordions, I just can’t help but comparing keyboards/digital pianos with what we get in accordions.

While at it, let me rant a little bit more. we accordionists are truly at the mercy of the manufacturers. When the FR7/7x came out, so many people had trouble with the thick 19 pin cable. I call it the old Catelfidardo mentality - making as many things proprietary as possible. Roland called my dealer friend and asked if they could take my post to Italy. They came out with an improved version of the cable, and I got the new version for free. wont it be nice if we could see accordions by Yamaha, Korg, and Casio?

 

[Keymn]

As far as the editor program, Korg had this software out since the early pa models over 10 years ago. Works on all PA models. As newer keyboard models came out, it was quickly updated. But as Torch mentioned in another Forum, Korg Is the only brand with a windows driver.

It is not just Korg but many many inexpensive midi keyboard controllers do come with PC editors (and special drivers if necessary) to change and save settings. What I meant by the Korg driver is a Windows driver for their Bluetooth devices such as the Microkey Air series and NanoKontrol Blutooth models.

Mike K, If you are not in a hurry, you might want to wait and look around for a used V accordion. Too many people around me have sold their 8x due to its bulkiness and weight. Some are trying to replace their 3x with the 4x. Even a 3x combined with your RD2000 or a good sound little module would be really something. The RD2000 is a fine instrument. I tried it at NAMM this year. The action feels so good. Tons of great sounds and amazing features. All that for just about half the cost of the FR4x. Not only that, youve got so many choices. I liked the FP90, too. Then the Casio PX560. A fine keyboard action, and ivory feel. Casios piano sound has been very good for many years and it gets only better. You can say this is not your grand kids Casio. Yet, some people complain about the price tag $1,200!!!!!!!! What kind of accordion can you get for $1,200? Even though by now I am used to the high prices of accordions, I just can’t help but comparing keyboards/digital pianos with what we get in accordions.

While at it, let me rant a little bit more. we accordionists are truly at the mercy of the manufacturers. When the FR7/7x came out, so many people had trouble with the thick 19 pin cable. I call it the old Catelfidardo mentality - making as many things proprietary as possible. Roland called my dealer friend and asked if they could take my post to Italy. They came out with an improved version of the cable, and I got the new version for free. wont it be nice if we could see accordions by Yamaha, Korg, and Casio?

Everyone has there own needs. I was never impressed with piano sounds on arrangers, even my Korg PA3x. Tried those Casio pianos, not bad! Must be the weighted keys that make it more authentic. Korg had an arranger module out several years ago, I think before BK7m, but discontinued. See them on EBay sometimes.

 

[Keymn]

As far as the editor program, Korg had this software out since the early pa models over 10 years ago. Works on all PA models. As newer keyboard models came out, it was quickly updated. But as Torch mentioned in another Forum, Korg Is the only brand with a windows driver.

It is not just Korg but many many inexpensive midi keyboard controllers do come with PC editors (and special drivers if necessary) to change and save settings. What I meant by the Korg driver is a Windows driver for their Bluetooth devices such as the Microkey Air series and NanoKontrol Blutooth models.

Mike K, If you are not in a hurry, you might want to wait and look around for a used V accordion. Too many people around me have sold their 8x due to its bulkiness and weight. Some are trying to replace their 3x with the 4x. Even a 3x combined with your RD2000 or a good sound little module would be really something. The RD2000 is a fine instrument. I tried it at NAMM this year. The action feels so good. Tons of great sounds and amazing features. All that for just about half the cost of the FR4x. Not only that, youve got so many choices. I liked the FP90, too. Then the Casio PX560. A fine keyboard action, and ivory feel. Casios piano sound has been very good for many years and it gets only better. You can say this is not your grand kids Casio. Yet, some people complain about the price tag $1,200!!!!!!!! What kind of accordion can you get for $1,200? Even though by now I am used to the high prices of accordions, I just can’t help but comparing keyboards/digital pianos with what we get in accordions.

While at it, let me rant a little bit more. we accordionists are truly at the mercy of the manufacturers. When the FR7/7x came out, so many people had trouble with the thick 19 pin cable. I call it the old Catelfidardo mentality - making as many things proprietary as possible. Roland called my dealer friend and asked if they could take my post to Italy. They came out with an improved version of the cable, and I got the new version for free. wont it be nice if we could see accordions by Yamaha, Korg, and Casio?

Everyone has there own needs. I was never impressed with piano sounds on arrangers, even my Korg PA3x. Tried those Casio pianos, not bad! Must be the weighted keys that make it more authentic. Korg had an arranger module out several years ago, I think before BK7m, but discontinued. See them on EBay sometimes.

Looks like this Korg module came out in 1996...interesting this had 2 midi inputs, quite convenient. My old Korg pa1x had 2 sets of midi in/out too.
https://reverb.com/item/6065267-kor...h3LZADTEAQYASABEgKyavD_BwE&pla=1#&gid=1&pid=1

 

[debra]

It's not all as crazy as it sounds. There are low end and high end models of everything and then there is the law of diminishing returns that makes the high end instruments much more expensive than the difference with low end instruments can explain.
The top of the line digital piano's cost twice of what the top of the line digital accordions cost. (The top Yamaha is over 10.000 euro.) You cannot compare a 2.000 euro one with the 10.000 euro one. (I actually have compared them. There is a difference!)

 

[Mike K]

Its not all as crazy as it sounds. There are low end and high end models of everything and then there is the law of diminishing returns that makes the high end instruments much more expensive than the difference with low end instruments can explain.
The top of the line digital pianos cost twice of what the top of the line digital accordions cost. (The top Yamaha is over 10.000 euro.) You cannot compare a 2.000 euro one with the 10.000 euro one. (I actually have compared them. There is a difference!)

But are the Roland V Accordion sounds any better than the Roland RD-2000 sounds? I have not played an FR-8x, only an FR-7 for a very limited time. RD-2000 is far from a 10000 euro instrument, only about 2000.

 

[Keymn]

Its not all as crazy as it sounds. There are low end and high end models of everything and then there is the law of diminishing returns that makes the high end instruments much more expensive than the difference with low end instruments can explain.
The top of the line digital pianos cost twice of what the top of the line digital accordions cost. (The top Yamaha is over 10.000 euro.) You cannot compare a 2.000 euro one with the 10.000 euro one. (I actually have compared them. There is a difference!)

But are the Roland V Accordion sounds any better than the Roland RD-2000 sounds? I have not played an FR-8x, only an FR-7 for a very limited time. RD-2000 is far from a 10000 euro instrument, only about 2000.

I didnt buy a VAccordion for the orchestra sounds. Most of My clients want an accordion Player, some want just the keyboard. If I was trained pianist and do dining clubs, of course go with RD2000...the accordion just increased my gigs. Besides, I have more fun with it since it is mobile.

 

[Keymn]

Its not all as crazy as it sounds. There are low end and high end models of everything and then there is the law of diminishing returns that makes the high end instruments much more expensive than the difference with low end instruments can explain.
The top of the line digital pianos cost twice of what the top of the line digital accordions cost. (The top Yamaha is over 10.000 euro.) You cannot compare a 2.000 euro one with the 10.000 euro one. (I actually have compared them. There is a difference!)

But are the Roland V Accordion sounds any better than the Roland RD-2000 sounds? I have not played an FR-8x, only an FR-7 for a very limited time. RD-2000 is far from a 10000 euro instrument, only about 2000.

I didnt buy a VAccordion for the orchestra sounds. Most of My clients want an accordion Player, some want just the keyboard. If I was trained pianist and do dining clubs, of course go with RD2000...the accordion just increased my gigs. Besides, I have more fun with it since it is mobile.

 

[torch]

I didnt buy a VAccordion for the orchestra sounds. Most of My clients want an accordion Player, some want just the keyboard. If I was trained pianist and do dining clubs, of course go with RD2000...the accordion just increased my gigs. Besides, I have more fun with it since it is mobile.

What you are saying is the other side of the same coin (what Mike has been saying all along) in my opinion. I, too, have come to think anymore that a digital accordion doesnt have to have too many orchestra sounds as one can always use external sounds. If thats the case and for many other reasons, the price of a digital accordion doesnt have to be that expensive. However, Roland doesnt really have any competition. What is there in a digital accordion even the Roland V accordion? A bunch of accordion sounds plus orchestra sounds, cheap stiff bellows, and speakers! Just compare the FR4x with your TOTL Korg Pa4x. No comparison, right? Not really an apple to apple comparison, but still, think of all the technology. So much technology in the Pa4x. With my V3 Sound Desktop arranger having so many great and diverse accordion sounds, sometime, I think I just need an accordion shell with good MIDI implementation.

BTW, when I go to a local accordion club meeting once in a blue moon, it bugs me to see just about everybody with a V accordion playing only the Sax!!! I scream to myself, I want to hear some accordion sounds!

I happen to be a trained pianist just because mother forced me to get started on the piano as a kid, and all these years I have played the piano. As a pianist, I disagree with what you said; a digital accordion can do just fine or even more in some aspects than a piano for dining clubs. Try to do a fancy version of Come Back to Sorrento on the piano. Then using the accordion sounds and the mandolin tremolo on the V-accordion.....! You know what I mean. I understand that there is a certain music that can be played right only on the piano, and when played on the accordion it wont be right. One small piece that comes to my mind right now is ballade pour adeline. Sure enough. The first video that I found on Youtube after I typed ballade pour adeline accordion seems to prove my point big time. Here is a probably classically trained, fine Russian B system CBA player; <YOUTUBE id=VMB6CUMkjnU url=></YOUTUBE>

My cheap Casio Privia 330 (I think I paid like a little over $600) has such a nice piano action. (kind of noisy, but I heard Casio started using thicker, better felts) The piano sound is pretty good, too. By the way, it is only 24 pounds. How did they do that with weighted hammer simulated action? In fact, Casio started the trend, and other manufacturers are trying to do similar things. Casio forced Roland, Korg, and Yamaha to come out with low priced, but very good digital pianos. Better stop here.

 

[Keymn]

But are the Roland V Accordion sounds any better than the Roland RD-2000 sounds? I have not played an FR-8x, only an FR-7 for a very limited time. RD-2000 is far from a 10000 euro instrument, only about 2000.

I didnt buy a VAccordion for the orchestra sounds. Most of My clients want an accordion Player, some want just the keyboard. If I was trained pianist and do dining clubs, of course go with RD2000...the accordion just increased my gigs. Besides, I have more fun with it since it is mobile.

 

[Keymn]

I didnt buy a VAccordion for the orchestra sounds. Most of My clients want an accordion Player, some want just the keyboard. If I was trained pianist and do dining clubs, of course go with RD2000...the accordion just increased my gigs. Besides, I have more fun with it since it is mobile.

What you are saying is the other side of the same coin (what Mike has been saying all along) in my opinion. I, too, have come to think anymore that a digital accordion doesnt have to have too many orchestra sounds as one can always use external sounds. If thats the case and for many other reasons, the price of a digital accordion doesnt have to be that expensive. However, Roland doesnt really have any competition. What is there in a digital accordion even the Roland V accordion? A bunch of accordion sounds plus orchestra sounds, cheap stiff bellows, and speakers! Just compare the FR4x with your TOTL Korg Pa4x. No comparison, right? Not really an apple to apple comparison, but still, think of all the technology. So much technology in the Pa4x. With my V3 Sound Desktop arranger having so many great and diverse accordion sounds, sometime, I think I just need an accordion shell with good MIDI implementation.

BTW, when I go to a local accordion club meeting once in a blue moon, it bugs me to see just about everybody with a V accordion playing only the Sax!!! I scream to myself, I want to hear some accordion sounds!

I happen to be a trained pianist just because mother forced me to get started on the piano as a kid, and all these years I have played the piano. As a pianist, I disagree with what you said; a digital accordion can do just fine or even more in some aspects than a piano for dining clubs. Try to do a fancy version of Come Back to Sorrento on the piano. Then using the accordion sounds and the mandolin tremolo on the V-accordion.....! You know what I mean. I understand that there is a certain music that can be played right only on the piano, and when played on the accordion it wont be right. One small piece that comes to my mind right now is ballade pour adeline. Sure enough. The first video that I found on Youtube after I typed ballade pour adeline accordion seems to prove my point big time. Here is a probably classically trained, fine Russian B system CBA player; <YOUTUBE id=VMB6CUMkjnU url=></YOUTUBE>

My cheap Casio Privia 330 (I think I paid like a little over $600) has such a nice piano action. (kind of noisy, but I heard Casio started using thicker, better felts) The piano sound is pretty good, too. By the way, it is only 24 pounds. How did they do that with weighted hammer simulated action? In fact, Casio started the trend, and other manufacturers are trying to do similar things. Casio forced Roland, Korg, and Yamaha to come out with low priced, but very good digital pianos. Better stop here.

I think we are on the same page. To clarify, If a dining Club gig wants a piano player, use a good piano, not bring the accordion (I even tried that Casio, which fits my budget). Doing a condo/country club dance gig, bring my Korg then pick up the Accordion to play appropriate accordion music (a winner! The Beer Barrel Polka). Being a good trained piano player gives you more gig opportunity playing wedding cocktail hours, etc. You play your hour, get good pay and let the band or DJ take over. Sometimes a house piano is available!

 

[debra]

More (money) isn't always more (functionality).
I bought a Yamaha CP-5 digital piano which is great (as a stage piano) with many sounds and possibilities beyond just piano. The other option was to get a Yamaha CP-1 which would offer fewer sounds but even better piano feel at about twice the price. I opted for the CP-5 but in the end used none of the options the CP-1 was lacking and I do notice the situations where the CP-1 would have been better (although the audience would never notice). In the end I'm still in doubt whether the CP-5 was a better choice than the CP-1. Only my wallet is very sure I took the better option.