Does the accordion suit one particular key signature above all others?

[wirralaccordion]

What is the accordion's "natural" key? I suppose for piano accordions C major would be the obvious answer as it best accommodates the smallest accordions down to 12 bass but there are many other factors to consider such as the bass stradella system, white and black notes, etc. Beyond C major/A minor do you prefer sharps or flats?
I don't know much about CBA and "free bass" but would preferences be different for these instruments?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Both PAs and CBAs are chromatic instruments and can handle any key in Western music. Of course, for learning purposes, people usually start out in C, and then slowly progress to other keys. So, let's say that for the sake of notation PAs and CBAs are concert-pitched, as opposed to transposing instruments like trumpets (mostly Bb, although C trumpets also exist) and saxes (Bb or Eb except for the rare C-melody sax).

On the other hand, diatonic accordions are kind of limited to one key (for Cajun or other one-row diatonics) or a few keys for those with several rows. The keys in which they can play are a function of the design of the instrument. For example, a diatonic accordion in F, C, and G can play in all of those keys and perhaps some songs in D and Bb as well.

 

[debra]

What is easier or harder depends more on how easy it is to read the sheet music than on how to play. This is even more the case for CBA where playing can be done with the same fingering in any key when using three out of the five rows of buttons. To stay on the same base row C, Eb, F# and A are easiest to play but C is much easier to read than F#...

 

[wirralaccordion]

That is a very good point you make. A good example of this would be Rimsky Korsakov's Flight of the Bumble Bee. The original key is B but when it is transposed to C it looks easier and yet the sheet music is still littered with accidentals. Strange or not?

 

[donn]

So, lets say that for the sake of notation PAs and CBAs are concert-pitched, as opposed to transposing instruments like trumpets (mostly Bb, although C trumpets also exist) and saxes (Bb or Eb except for the rare C-melody sax).

This can get more confusing if you look more closely, though. In most of the world, outside of the UK, music for the tuba, trombone and euphonium is in concert pitch, but their natural tonal key if you will is Bb (though the tuba may also be found in C, Eb and F.) So a euphonium for example might be playing the same part as the Bb cornet (but an octave lower), and operating the valves just the same, but one of them is in Bb and the other is in C, by this notation standard.

Brass instruments have a clear natural key, corresponding to the length of the main branch of the tubing (not including valve tubing), but as they are nowadays all equipped with valves, they can play with equal facility in different keys. A woodwinds natural key doesnt depend on its acoustics in that way, but rather on the conventional way its holes and mechanism are matched to the 10 fingers of the right and left hands. The key determined in this way, comes from the lowest note on the early woodwinds, such as recorders - a recorder whose lowest note is C, has similar fingering to a C flute. (The notation came later, though - music for early woodwinds was all concert pitch, as far as I know.) Flute and saxophone are simple examples; the clarinet, though, departs acoustically from the norm and sounds different notes for the same fingering, in the upper and lower registers, so though normally classified as a Bb instrument, it plays like an Eb alto saxophone in its lower register. The bassoon is mechanically an F instrument, but like the trombones and tuba, its music is written in concert pitch.

In short, even these distinctions are as much arbitrary as natural.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Many musicians question the music instruments imperfections when it comes to the subject music keys, transposition and modulation in music pieces.

Strangely few have a look at the traditional or standard music notation system: the staff notation.
Staff notation, in origin, was a system invented for singers, not for instrumentalists. It developed in function of choir singing and vocal/singing education.

It is the music staff notation thas also has some imperfections ( eg the complexity of sharps and flats, the accidentals, etc) because of the historical development.
The historical development of tunings and temperaments also plays a major role.

But most of musicians continue to use the traditional staff notation, in combination with music instruments that have been created in a different area or time. These evolutions are incongruent.

In fact, every music instrument could have it's own unique notation system (eg tablature systems for guitars, lutes).

The accordion has got no particular key when it comes to equal temperament. All keys are available.
If you talk about fingering on PA, then yes C major(ism) is the "natural" suitable key.

But if you change the traditional staff music notation system, and you use the numbered music notation system, you have a more clear vision on music notation and keys.

Reducing this topic only to the music instrument's layout is actually incomplete. One should also discuss the compability of the (traditional) music notation and it's imperfections.

(I'm pretty sure I already mentioned the delicious benefits of numbered music notation. I use both traditional staff music notation and the Galin-Paris-Chevé system of numbered music notation)

 

[george garside]

Both PAs and CBAs are chromatic instruments and can handle any key in Western music. Of course, for learning purposes, people usually start out in C, and then slowly progress to other keys. So, lets say that for the sake of notation PAs and CBAs are concert-pitched, as opposed to transposing instruments like trumpets (mostly Bb, although C trumpets also exist) and saxes (Bb or Eb except for the rare C-melody sax).

On the other hand, diatonic accordions are kind of limited to one key (for Cajun or other one-row diatonics) or a few keys for those with several rows. The keys in which they can play are a function of the design of the instrument. For example, a diatonic accordion in F, C, and G can play in all of those keys and perhaps some songs in D and Bb as well.

There are in fact several species of so called diatonic button boxes some of which are also chromatic! The term diatonic is used simply to denote that each row contains a diatonic scale i.e it has whatever sharps and flats to play in a specific key.

There are two basic setups, the 4th apart boxes eg the DG , Cf, Gc boxes which are mostly played in the aforementioned home keys . However there are 3 row versions of these with the third row containing a random selection of black notes to enable other keys to be played in but the still limited range of keys means they are not chromatic.

Then there are the so called semitone boxes with the diatonic rows tuned a semitone apart eg BC, CC#, C#D which provides all the black notes required to play in all 12 keys making them technically chromatic. However playing in all 12 keys is somewhat difficult for example a BC box is fine for the sharp keys but more difficult for the flat keys which are relatively easy on a CC# box on which the sharp keys are a bit of a bugger!

The king of the diatonics is the 3 row (semitone) BCC# British Chromatic box , usually with full stradella and on which a mere 5 scalesworth of fingering covers all 12 keys. The most famous exponent of the British Chromatic was Sir Jimmy Shand whose worldwide record sales ran into millions and who played to capacity audiences in the Albert Hall, the Carnegie Hall and the Sydney opera House as well as many Royal command performances and 3 times winner of the prestigious Carl Alan awards for the best old time dance band. He played the rolls Royce of diatonic boxes the Shand Morino, designed jointly by himself and Louis Morino,

george

 

[debra]

Let me add to my earlier post that I learned (I forget from where) that in pure terms of playing, on a PA or piano, the keys of B, F# and C# is the easiest. The reason is that these keys use all 5 black keys. Hitting the black keys (without accidentally also hitting the key next to it) is easy because of the spacing between the black keys. One of the first tunes many people learned before even starting taking any class goes d#c# F# (A#+f#)(A#+f#) d#c# F# (A#+f#)(A#+f#)d#c# F# (A#+f#) D# (A#+f#) C# (G#+E#) (G#+E#)... so only that last chord (twice) has a note (E# which is F) that is a white key. This is easy to play because the black keys are hard to miss. These keys are only difficult to play in when you have to read the sheet music (or if you have a Morino VI N which has awkward narrow black keys that take getting used to).
So really there are two very different questions: which key is easiest to read (not dependent on the instrument) versus which key is easiest to play in.

 

[wirralaccordion]

Hi Paul,

Just wondered if that tune above has a name to it?

 

[TomBR]

Let me add to my earlier post that I learned (I forget from where) that in pure terms of playing, on a PA or piano, the keys of B, F# and C# is the easiest. The reason is that these keys use all 5 black keys. Hitting the black keys (without accidentally also hitting the key next to it) is easy because of the spacing between the black keys. One of the first tunes many people learned before even starting taking any class goes d#c# F# (A#+f#)(A#+f#) d#c# F# (A#+f#)(A#+f#)d#c# F# (A#+f#) D# (A#+f#) C# (G#+E#) (G#+E#)... so only that last chord (twice) has a note (E# which is F) that is a white key. This is easy to play because the black keys are hard to miss. These keys are only difficult to play in when you have to read the sheet music (or if you have a Morino VI N which has awkward narrow black keys that take getting used to).
So really there are two very different questions: which key is easiest to read (not dependent on the instrument) versus which key is easiest to play in.

The great songwriter Irving Berlin had a transposing piano made where you could move the keyboard up and down to transpose the sound into any key, but the key pattern he played in was F#. Not only does that give all black keys as Paul says, but the pentatonic scale of black keys will mean that wrong notes mostly sound ok. Apparently he didnt read music either. He still managed to write some rather good stuff!

 

[JEBrown]

A different take on this discussion - isn't the 'best' key for an accordion defined by how many basses you have on your box? I used to have a 72-bass instrument with F# at the top and C# at the bottom. Playing in F# major would be more or less impossible, if I wanted to play any bass notes. Same for playing in C#, or B major... For my repertoire at the time there was only one piece which required me to play F# and C# chords consecutively, now I have a 96-bass instrument which has solved this issue.

So isn't the 'best' key defined by whichever basses you have in the middle of the bass side, meaning that you're least likely to have to make huge jumps in the left hand?

And I think the tune Paul was referring to is called Chopsticks - at least that's what I always call it.

 

[Deleted member 48]

Absolutely, best suited key on the accordion depends on many factors. And both the left hand bass side, and the right hand side are equally important.
So the number of basses in the left hand is also crucial (the tension in the left hand strap; if your tonic key is in the middle, tension is lower in the strap, and jumps will be easier. Shorter jumps etc. However the straps need the right amount of tension).

As for staff music notation, I even have some sheet music pieces where the F-clef for the bass is also written in G-clef. Like the treble clef. So both the treble and the bass notation are the same system.

In numbered music notation, you don't think in pitches and note names, but in degrees, scale degrees.

Let's not forget the (international standard) basses of accordions (both PA and CBA) have an arrangement that is very different from a PA treble side.
When stradella basses or international standard basses where introduced, the C bass button is on a straight even line together with the other basses in 5th order. No special priviliges for the C bass button, except for it lying somewhere in the middle of the hand strap, at ideal tension.

Who would give up the stradella basses and go back to earlier bass systems with an unequal order ? Probably no one.

 

[wirralaccordion]

And I think the tune Paul was referring to is called Chopsticks - at least thats what I always call it.

It definitely isnt Chopsticks.

 

[debra]

And I think the tune Paul was referring to is called Chopsticks - at least thats what I always call it.

It definitely isnt Chopsticks.

It is something very well known but I cannot remember the name right now and the musipedia.org site is down. Otherwise we could easily look it up.

 

[JEBrown]

And I think the tune Paul was referring to is called Chopsticks - at least thats what I always call it.

It definitely isnt Chopsticks.

Yes of course - just looked it up and Chopsticks is that waltz played in C major.
I think the black note tune is (from Yahoo Answers) usually known as The Flea Waltz, which is most odd as its not a waltz at all - it actually in 2/4 time
<YOUTUBE id=-1u8kw6hI url=>...</YOUTUBE>
It is played by kids all over the world and has different names in different countries:
Mexico - The Little Monkeys
Finland - The Cats Polka
Spain - The Chocolate Maker
Netherlands - The Flea March
Russia - Dog Waltz
Bulgaria - Cat March
Japan - I Stepped on the Cat
Poland - Cutlet
Hungary - Donkey March
Mallorca - Fools Polka
Czech Republic - Pig Waltz
Denmark - Princess Two-Legs
China - The Thief March

 

[TomBR]

The Flea Waltz - ho ho! I've never had a name for that tune, though I know it's often mis-named Chopsticks. Thank you!
Have to try it on CBA later!
Tom