On the plus side, Hammond organ and Leslie speakers look like they are designed for a living room. Much more so than for a rock band stage. The design probably takes into account the real-world circumstances married musicians have to contend with.
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Duovox?
- Thread starter Accordion guy2010
- Start date
Ventura
Been here for ages!
Hammond's original target market was Church/institutional use
Jazz and Rock n Roll were totally unintended consequences
(lucky for us)
Hammond's first "home" targeted organ was an inexpensive little
spinet sized thing with an Accordion Bass button matrix
to the left of the short keyboard, one speaker, 6V6 output,
even Lowrey's original target market was institutional sales
(as they had quickly come out with a viable, lower cost but
still damn good sounding competing organ line)
and for Lowrey, Piano's and Accordions were an unintended consequence
(lucky for us)
Jazz and Rock n Roll were totally unintended consequences
(lucky for us)
Hammond's first "home" targeted organ was an inexpensive little
spinet sized thing with an Accordion Bass button matrix
to the left of the short keyboard, one speaker, 6V6 output,
even Lowrey's original target market was institutional sales
(as they had quickly come out with a viable, lower cost but
still damn good sounding competing organ line)
and for Lowrey, Piano's and Accordions were an unintended consequence
(lucky for us)
Thomas N
Well-known member
That's why I really like this site. I really appreciate all of the historical information on all things accordion/organ that you share, Ventura. I don't know the history of any of it and this is the only place I could discover information like this.
It's not like I could ask a couple friends "Hey, tell me what you know about Luigi Brutti and his history with Roland and Korg....."
I am kind of guilty of that, but consider it a blessing in that I have an entire full basement for my computer/music toys (and a small area for a toilet and exercise area, which the camera makes unusable... lol), and yet, sometimes that is not enough as I have a mac mini upstairs with an audio interface and digital mixer setup for fooling around and sometimes do zoom meetings there... lol
Hmmm... I think you need an expansion for a 2nd recording room or something... lolOf course she has a "yarn room" for all of her knitting WIPs (works in progress). Literally an entire room full of yarn and various devices that I have no idea what they do. This would be very cool - if she knitted.
Exactly, the Hammond is a beautiful piece of furniture. When we first married, the Hammond was the first piece of furniture we bought. I won't ever hear the end of that. The living room was where it was for a long time. After much pressure, from my wife, for more space in the living room, I moved everything down the basement, where it has been for several years now. A potential problem, I was concerned about, was that the summer basement humidity could cause key contact problems. In the summer, I always have two dehumidifiers running. Hammond shipped many organs with a console heater for organs that went to southern states, with high humidity. I bought a couple of the heaters on eBay, installed them in my B3, and have always had them on, when my B3 is off. I have never had a key contact problem
The Hammond organs were built very well, especially the earlier ones. The main problem, that would rarely come up, is the key contacts. Inherent, with the Hammond design, was the very high impedance circuits throughout the organ. The output of the mechanical tonewheel generator (for the 91 tonewheel frequencies) is a very low impedance millivolt (5-15 millivolts) signal. The preamplifier likes a signal in the 1-10V range. Hammond used a matching transformer with a 1:500 turns ratio. This essentially is a very good "passive" amplifier. The voltage at the secondary goes up directly proportional to the turns ratio. However, the impedance goes up as the Square of the turns ratio. So the impedance is high, on the secondary, that is input to the tube Preamp. This results is a very, very low current flowing through the key contacts. In general, a contact likes some current flow (sometimes called "wetting current). At times, contacts will not "conduct" at these low current conditions. To solve this problem Hammond used highly conductive palladium on the 9 contacts under each key and the 9 busbars. These were very reliable, and if some dust got between the contact and the busbar, pressing rapidly on the key, would usually clean the contact due to the design of a "wiping" action of the key contact to the busbar.
This is a lot more information that you may be interested in. I think I am getting "Off Topic".
If this is getting boring, just delete the previous paragraph with all the detail.
Hi John
Hammond (tech) never is a boring topic (to me) - though I understand it's "off topic" on this forum.
Sorry to hear you had to re-locate your B3 into the basement.
I brought myself a nice A102 from one of my numerous business trips to US and gave her a new home in a dedicated music room.
I bought it from a Hammond guy in LA out of his living room - at that time it was more a Hammond/Leslie storage/showroom.
His wife complained a bit about too may organs - somewhat understandable if you saw all the organs and Leslies incl. A "tall-boy" 31H.
But somehow she was also tolerating it as she was playing herself as well.
I'll never forget the couple taking place on the bench of their own C3 hooked up to 2 Leslies (!), starting 'em up and playing a duet - a lifetime memory.
Hammond (tech) never is a boring topic (to me) - though I understand it's "off topic" on this forum.
Sorry to hear you had to re-locate your B3 into the basement.
I brought myself a nice A102 from one of my numerous business trips to US and gave her a new home in a dedicated music room.
I bought it from a Hammond guy in LA out of his living room - at that time it was more a Hammond/Leslie storage/showroom.
His wife complained a bit about too may organs - somewhat understandable if you saw all the organs and Leslies incl. A "tall-boy" 31H.
But somehow she was also tolerating it as she was playing herself as well.
I'll never forget the couple taking place on the bench of their own C3 hooked up to 2 Leslies (!), starting 'em up and playing a duet - a lifetime memory.
Thanks for your reply Phil. This is what really got me into the Hammond. After I graduated in 1964 with a B.S. in E.E. I was hired at NASA, Plum Brook Station (a 6,000 acre facility for Rocket Systems testing). It was a remote testing facility in Sandusky, Ohio. There was a "fellow" there, that was always checking the "Government Surplus Lists". If you wanted an item on the list you could get it sent to you (any government base to any other government base for free). So, he found this C3 with with PR-40 tone cabinet and had it sent to NASA Plum Brook. The C3/PR-40 was at an Army Base in Arizona and they wanted to get rid of it. He knew of my E.E. background and asked me if I could take a look at it -- it was damaged in shipment.
I said I would, and I spent many "evening hours" after work getting this C3/PR-40 back into working condition. In shipment, the C3 was dropped somehow. The cabinet was totally broken at the lower left corner (not connected) where the power entrance cable/PR-40 Amphenol connectors are. The C3 was dropped so hard that the AO-28 preamp power transformer was "extracted" from it's 4 screw mounts on the preamp and ended up at the other end of the console (start motor end) of the C3. All the preamp tubes ended up at the end of the cabinet (in tact, but not broken) Also, the PR-40 had a rough ride since no one secured the "Necklace, 3 Spring Reverb" (before shipment) that was in the PR-40. In shipment, all 3 springs fell off and got stuck and "kinked/destroyed" by the powerful magnet of the adjacent 15" bass speaker. I was very interested to get this Hammond working. Beside my "cheap after work labor", I had to get the 3 totally destroyed reverb springs. So, I went to the "fellow", that got the C3 on surplus, and said all I would need, to get this Hammond working was a purchase order to Hammond for 3 new springs on the necklace reverb or it wouldn't work. He said, "no problem" -- he would buy it out of his "slush fund". I can't remember the cost, but it was under $100.
So, I went to work -- Put the broken C3 cabinet back together -- remounted the preamp power transformer and re-soldered all the wires that were broken from the "hard drop" during of the shipment. I put all of the tubes back in the preamp that were dislodged during shipment (none were broken) and replaced the new reverb springs that were were purchased.
After all that, I powered up the C3 and it worked perfectly, just like brand new.
After I had the C3 in "operating condition", we moved it to an old "pump house" (just bare concrete walls), at NASA, that was not being used anymore. I couldn't believe what the NASA employees gave of their free time to restore this "pump house" to a recreational facility for the employees. With 6,000 acres, there was a lot of good timber. They cut enough wood to panel the walls of the "pump house". It was "rough sawn" wood. I don't know all the details of this but when finished it was beautiful. We had parties, after work on Friday, I played the C3 and everyone had a good time.
In 1973 NASA Plum Brook closed, (as a result of the shutting down of NASA nuclear programs under president Nixon). There was a 60 Megawatt nuclear at Plum Brook used for testing the effects of radiation on various materials.
Also, there was the Nerva Nuclear Rocket Engine Program that was cancelled. We were at the head of the "Chopping Block"
When Plum Brook closed, I applied to NASA Lewis (now NASA Glenn) and was accepted in the Automation Process Controls Section. I made sure the C3 Organ and tone cabinet were transferred to Glenn. For many years, the NASA employees, at Glenn, created a fantastic Christmas party for the employees' children. There was a visit with Santa and small gifts for kids that came. There were Christmas carols with a group that could sing (not me), that sang along with the Hammond C3 that I had transferred to Glen.
Again, forgive me for this long post -- I know it doesn't belong here, really "off topic" -- I suppose it belongs in "The Pub". I'm doing a reply that fits for me. Maybe Knobby can place it somewhere else. I am 83 now, and I don't know all the "tricks" of current software. Things are different now -- especially the people.
I said I would, and I spent many "evening hours" after work getting this C3/PR-40 back into working condition. In shipment, the C3 was dropped somehow. The cabinet was totally broken at the lower left corner (not connected) where the power entrance cable/PR-40 Amphenol connectors are. The C3 was dropped so hard that the AO-28 preamp power transformer was "extracted" from it's 4 screw mounts on the preamp and ended up at the other end of the console (start motor end) of the C3. All the preamp tubes ended up at the end of the cabinet (in tact, but not broken) Also, the PR-40 had a rough ride since no one secured the "Necklace, 3 Spring Reverb" (before shipment) that was in the PR-40. In shipment, all 3 springs fell off and got stuck and "kinked/destroyed" by the powerful magnet of the adjacent 15" bass speaker. I was very interested to get this Hammond working. Beside my "cheap after work labor", I had to get the 3 totally destroyed reverb springs. So, I went to the "fellow", that got the C3 on surplus, and said all I would need, to get this Hammond working was a purchase order to Hammond for 3 new springs on the necklace reverb or it wouldn't work. He said, "no problem" -- he would buy it out of his "slush fund". I can't remember the cost, but it was under $100.
So, I went to work -- Put the broken C3 cabinet back together -- remounted the preamp power transformer and re-soldered all the wires that were broken from the "hard drop" during of the shipment. I put all of the tubes back in the preamp that were dislodged during shipment (none were broken) and replaced the new reverb springs that were were purchased.
After all that, I powered up the C3 and it worked perfectly, just like brand new.
After I had the C3 in "operating condition", we moved it to an old "pump house" (just bare concrete walls), at NASA, that was not being used anymore. I couldn't believe what the NASA employees gave of their free time to restore this "pump house" to a recreational facility for the employees. With 6,000 acres, there was a lot of good timber. They cut enough wood to panel the walls of the "pump house". It was "rough sawn" wood. I don't know all the details of this but when finished it was beautiful. We had parties, after work on Friday, I played the C3 and everyone had a good time.
In 1973 NASA Plum Brook closed, (as a result of the shutting down of NASA nuclear programs under president Nixon). There was a 60 Megawatt nuclear at Plum Brook used for testing the effects of radiation on various materials.
Also, there was the Nerva Nuclear Rocket Engine Program that was cancelled. We were at the head of the "Chopping Block"
When Plum Brook closed, I applied to NASA Lewis (now NASA Glenn) and was accepted in the Automation Process Controls Section. I made sure the C3 Organ and tone cabinet were transferred to Glenn. For many years, the NASA employees, at Glenn, created a fantastic Christmas party for the employees' children. There was a visit with Santa and small gifts for kids that came. There were Christmas carols with a group that could sing (not me), that sang along with the Hammond C3 that I had transferred to Glen.
Again, forgive me for this long post -- I know it doesn't belong here, really "off topic" -- I suppose it belongs in "The Pub". I'm doing a reply that fits for me. Maybe Knobby can place it somewhere else. I am 83 now, and I don't know all the "tricks" of current software. Things are different now -- especially the people.
Great story John, thanks!
ackordio
Member
Back to Duovox: this thread inspired me to dig out my Duovox.
Yes, it's heavy, yes, it's bulky. But the reeds are excellent, fine response, great dynamics. The keyboard action is a dream, the 16' is mellow and warm, the 8' soft and singing. Only the tremolo is too hard for me.
All in all, the acoustic instrument is of the highest quality, which is why I have removed the electronics and installed a DIY midi (although I never use it). Highly recommended, even without the tone cabinet!
Yes, it's heavy, yes, it's bulky. But the reeds are excellent, fine response, great dynamics. The keyboard action is a dream, the 16' is mellow and warm, the 8' soft and singing. Only the tremolo is too hard for me.
All in all, the acoustic instrument is of the highest quality, which is why I have removed the electronics and installed a DIY midi (although I never use it). Highly recommended, even without the tone cabinet!
Ventura
Been here for ages!
yes, i agree.. and sadly because the electronics were
so noisy and troublesome, the chance of finding one
with relatively "few miles" on the accordion itself is
pretty good (as compared to an early Cordovox which
most of them were played to death)
i would even say the first series Duovox accordions were likely the
best of breed in the organ-accordion category ever made, because frankly
all other types of Organ Accordions skimped to some extent or other
on the acoustics to keep the overall price down, and because they
felt offering HM reeds was enough for the "Pro's"
he targeted professionals here in the Eastern USA and the first
few DUOVOX.s that were built were absolute perfection for
their accordions.. the equal to any other BELL he had in the line..
he GAVE THEM AWAY to the top pro's of the era, because he felt
they would finally have found an Organ-Accordion without
compromise (and would therefore use them professionally etc.)
but sadly the CRUMAR electronics let him down.. the sounds
were good, but the poor electronic engineering and circuitry
deteriorated quickly into constant background noise, while
the poorly shielded geography inside the cabinet suffered
in the big city environments where interference is high
playing a gig, pausing between songs, and hearing a constant crackle
from your huge speakers with occasional "pops" making the
patrons jump out of their comfort zones was not cool
later model Duovox, and other organ accordions as well
with the chicklet switches were also CRUMAR and pro quality,
but by then every brand had given up on pairing a great
acoustic with organ circuits as far as i could tell.. maybe there
were a few other standout special orders..
John Castiglione could tell you about the high incidence of
damaged and cracked bodies he suffered through as a major
importer and distributor in the latter days of the Organ Acccordion
era due to cost cutting on the accordion builds
i certainly have not taken apart or seen any other brand/model with
Walnut keys and a long dual pivot key action like the Galanti built Bell's
and yes, once this fella opens his up and gives it a really good
inspection and evaluation, he might find it is the best accordion
he has ever touched, and worth a MIDI kit
but sadly. no matter what you do to most Organ-Accordions,
you can never get a 4th reedset in it.. and so there are always
better candidates for a MIDI
(unless you got the box for free or for a song)
so noisy and troublesome, the chance of finding one
with relatively "few miles" on the accordion itself is
pretty good (as compared to an early Cordovox which
most of them were played to death)
i would even say the first series Duovox accordions were likely the
best of breed in the organ-accordion category ever made, because frankly
all other types of Organ Accordions skimped to some extent or other
on the acoustics to keep the overall price down, and because they
felt offering HM reeds was enough for the "Pro's"
he targeted professionals here in the Eastern USA and the first
few DUOVOX.s that were built were absolute perfection for
their accordions.. the equal to any other BELL he had in the line..
he GAVE THEM AWAY to the top pro's of the era, because he felt
they would finally have found an Organ-Accordion without
compromise (and would therefore use them professionally etc.)
but sadly the CRUMAR electronics let him down.. the sounds
were good, but the poor electronic engineering and circuitry
deteriorated quickly into constant background noise, while
the poorly shielded geography inside the cabinet suffered
in the big city environments where interference is high
playing a gig, pausing between songs, and hearing a constant crackle
from your huge speakers with occasional "pops" making the
patrons jump out of their comfort zones was not cool
later model Duovox, and other organ accordions as well
with the chicklet switches were also CRUMAR and pro quality,
but by then every brand had given up on pairing a great
acoustic with organ circuits as far as i could tell.. maybe there
were a few other standout special orders..
John Castiglione could tell you about the high incidence of
damaged and cracked bodies he suffered through as a major
importer and distributor in the latter days of the Organ Acccordion
era due to cost cutting on the accordion builds
i certainly have not taken apart or seen any other brand/model with
Walnut keys and a long dual pivot key action like the Galanti built Bell's
and yes, once this fella opens his up and gives it a really good
inspection and evaluation, he might find it is the best accordion
he has ever touched, and worth a MIDI kit
but sadly. no matter what you do to most Organ-Accordions,
you can never get a 4th reedset in it.. and so there are always
better candidates for a MIDI
(unless you got the box for free or for a song)
ackordio
Member
Great insights! Many thanks for this first-hand experience.
Ten years ago I was able to buy the Duovox extremely cheaply without tone generator.
Typical for Galanti, it is signed and dated "1970 Gianni Ricardo". A small detail that I don't know from any other manufacturer.
Do you know when Duovox was introduced first?
The electrical part is clearly inferior to the Farfisas, where the contact is under the key, which is very reliable. At Galanti, it is a spring that touches a bar that acts like an antenna. Even minor corrosion leads to contact problems.
Mechanically excellent, but electrically problematic.
And this is how it looks today with an Arduino as Midi controller.
Ten years ago I was able to buy the Duovox extremely cheaply without tone generator.
Typical for Galanti, it is signed and dated "1970 Gianni Ricardo". A small detail that I don't know from any other manufacturer.
Do you know when Duovox was introduced first?
The electrical part is clearly inferior to the Farfisas, where the contact is under the key, which is very reliable. At Galanti, it is a spring that touches a bar that acts like an antenna. Even minor corrosion leads to contact problems.
Mechanically excellent, but electrically problematic.
And this is how it looks today with an Arduino as Midi controller.
