Excelsior 930 van Damme

[truthinbeer]

I have seen an Excelsior 930 van Damme advertised. I have not been able to find alot of information online. A bit of discussion on here about the 940 model but I do not know much about any of these other than they are held in high regard on this site.
Of the condition the seller says - Instrument plays very well but requires some minor repairs. The treble registers and the top C (or C3) on the treble keyboard are sticky so need adjusting. Basses and registers are fine and instrument is very airtight so bellows control is excellent. Instrument has 10 treble and 6 bass registers. Electronics in the instrument is all there but disconnected.
Here are some photos to start discussion;




These are the only photos online so I will need to ask for some full frontals.
I am looking for opinion of the model, what to look out for, difficulty/cost of keyboard adjustment?
Also opinion on a price range?
Lastly, age?

 

[truthinbeer]

I requested more photos. First shows some wear on keys...not looking so attractive now.

 

[nagant27]

These have 2 bassoon reeds. One is in chamber and one is outside the chamber. These are L and Lc switches. The two together sound awesome. In my opinion these are great instruments. I play mine a lot, and it is definitely worth trying it if you get the chance.

 

[nagant27]

One more thing on age... Mine is an older design, but based on the grill design and lettering on yours-I would guess maybe the later 60's?? Maybe someone else will have a better idea.

 

[JIM D.]

Pre 60s as Excelsior in 1962 had already switched to models that were called the Continental or AC series. Van Damme Played a Continental Grand series EAC until his death. The Excelsior Continental is still in the model line today -


http://www.excelsior-accordions.it/prodotti/standard.php?see=acr&language=en
and the 940 is now back.
http://www.excelsior-accordions.it/prodotti/standard.php?see=940&language=en

 

[nagant27]

Thank you jim. I was not sure about it. Are all the van dame models classified as 930's? This is the first I've seen with the 930 model stamped right on it. Is it a 930 because of the grill design and a 940 if it has the other design.

Also if you count the 6th and 10th switch you see the "N" label that was the subject of another thread here.

 

[JIM D.]

A 930 is a custom 940 with two sets of Bassoon reeds. Very Rare !!!

 

[nagant27]

Would this model be from the 50s?






BTW: I never realized they were still making the 940 models. thanks again.


Also Is the extended keyboard also a special feature of these 930s??

 

[Soulsaver]

Whats the difference between the AVD Excelsiola and AVD Excelsior models? Machine made reeds in the Excelsiola?

 

[truthinbeer]

Thanks for the responses. I am really just looking for a quality PA so that I do not overuse the old P.Soprani whilst learning. Of-course I would like something that is a keeper.
The 930 is currently sitting at aud$1000. I now know it needs work. I dont really fancy trying to replace those key tops and it has a sticky register and top C.
Another I have found is an 80 bass Excelsior with newish straps, currently sitting at $680.






The 80 bass is 5 rows of buttons so I guess that the Diminished 7th row has been dropped?
Any idea on age of this one?

Both are a few hours drive away so tricky to organise a viewing prior to the auctions ending.

 

[truthinbeer]

A 930 is a custom 940 with two sets of Bassoon reeds. Very Rare !!!

I was interrupted when posted the preceding and hadnt seen your earlier replies.
Would you say even with the required repairs the 930 is one worth pursuing? I just figured the 930 would be the lesser accordion than the 940 based on the number sequence.
I have not been able to find much at all online about the vD930. What sort of price range would you place on this one?

 

[JIM D.]

The Excelsior 940 is truly a fine classic accordion. When Van Damme tried it he liked the model but since he never used a set of (H) piccolo reeds he inquired on a 940 with two sets of (L) bassoon, 1 set in cassotto and 1 set out. Excelsior decided to custom order from Italy a 940 per Art's request, as at the time Van Damme was the most popular Jazz accordionist and recording star and Art performing with an Excelsior product was to their financial benefit.
To make a 940 per Art's request the conversion required making none standard reed blocks to accept the different size reed plates and reworking the shift machine and slides to select the new reed combo's. Expecting future sales the new design was given a model # 930 and included in the model line as a custom order Van Damme model. Very few were made and now have become scarce as "Hen's Teeth". As for restoration, if you are into performing american jazz standards a 930 will outperform a Sonola SS20 and the cost will be well worth it. If you prefer to perform all types of musical venue the 940 will fill all of your needs.

 

[truthinbeer]

Thank you for the detailed explanation Jim.

...
. As for restoration, if you are into performing american jazz standards a 930 will outperform a Sonola SS20 and the cost will be well worth it. If you prefer to perform all types of musical venue the 940 will fill all of your needs.

I shouldnt expect to ever perform for more than family and the odd dog or two. Afraid Ive left my run too late for that caper.

 

[JIM D.]

That 80 bass Accordiana is a nice box but priced to high. If it as a 120 the price would be right.

 

[truthinbeer]

That 80 bass Accordiana is a nice box but priced to high. If it as a 120 the price would be right.

Thanks Jim. Oh, I hadnt noticed its an Accordiana...what does that mean? :?
Remember that aud is only US70c (sniff) making it approx US$490. Is that still over the odds?
Any thoughts on its age?

 

[truthinbeer]

I noticed the 80 bass has 2 bassoon register/switches. Is that unusual?
Similar to this 304. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/43729501_accordeon-excelsior-304-art-van-damme-with-mother-of

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[nagant27]

Good information Jim. Art van Damme was truly one of a kind, and his playing was not of this world.

As for the accordiana, if given the choice I would go with the van damme hands down. Even with a few problems that you mention, and depending on your tastes you may be able to leave those keys alone. They probably wouldn't be that noticeable. The difference in sound would be huge! A full sized, professional excelsior is hard to beat. And one so unique as this...

I would try them both if possible, maybe the van damme might even be too much accordion for you, and then it would be an easy decision. Sometimes just trying an accordion only takes a minute or so, and can answer a lot of "what if" hypothetical questions.

Also the 2 bass switches seems pretty normal to me. I would have to agree the price is a little high- since this is not a full 120 bass.

Keep us posted on what you decide.

 

[truthinbeer]

Thanks nagant. The 930 is in Canberra...3-4 hrs drive from Sydney, 400km. The 80 bass is down the south coast and also about 4 hrs drive. So logistically challenged.

I hear what you say regarding the 930, Jim too.
I heard today that all the keys are pitted, the electronics removed roughly and the tone not as it should be. Maybe the guy that told me wants it for himself. lol. However I would expect that more keys would be pitted than just shown in the photo. Stands to reason. It may not be quite the instrument it should be.

...

Also the 2 bass switches seems pretty normal to me. I would have to agree the price is a little high- since this is not a full 120 bass.
...

I noticed a youtube clip for a 303 (120bass) also with 7 treble switches like this 80 bass. The bottom switch was Piccolo instead of Bassoon, so one bassoon and one piccolo.

 

[JIM D.]

As far as the pitted keys - if the pitting is not to deep, removing the key and wet sanding and polishing will in some cases work fine. If the pitting is to deep the key top will have to be replaced. The problem with replacing one or more key tops is that the new key top will be whiter than the old key tops. If the accordion is worth it, replacing all the key tops with a new set is recommended. And the comment about the tone - well this accordion when built with two sets of bassoon reeds required an extreme tuning process. Every bassoon reed has a twin in another reed block and they MUST BE TUNED AS A PAIR and then installed in two different reed blocks. Cleaning, tuning and leather replacement on a 930 is costly in labor as each reed with it's twin has to be removed, tuned as a pair and then re-installed. Even the leathers have to match as leathers than do not respond the same will result in a change of pitch. Bassoon reeds not exactly matching will result in a low octave tremolo effect and the sound is just horrible. And then the removal if the quality mic's this accordion came with tells me that at some point in time an amateur has performed not repairs, but damage. If you only have basic repair skills, you might want to pass this one up.

 

[truthinbeer]

.... Bassoon reeds not exactly matching will result in a low octave tremolo effect and the sound is just horrible. And then the removal if the quality mics this accordion came with tells me that at some point in time an amateur has performed not repairs, but damage. If you only have basic repair skills, you might want to pass this one up.

The person I spoke with said exactly that...it sounded horrible, but he didnt know why.
At first glance this PA looks like a great find. I started to loose interest when it became apparent I might have to renew all the piano keys. I think I could do this but sourcing replacement keys might be problematic and I do not know the cost of a full key-set. Then when you start adding in the cost of tunings, repair of the electronics...perhaps not quite the bargain it at first appeared.

The 80 bass. At US$490 still overpriced?
What is the meaning of the addition of Accordiana name to the model?
It has 2 sets of Bassoon also. Unusual on a small PA?