FR4x Organ sounds

[StevePen]

I have spent a lot of time learning about the organ sounds in the 4x and how to create my own. Unless I am missing something, it appears that the only way to control the rotary on/off effect is by activating the function switches on the top row of buttons on the bass side. I have a bunch of my own organs programmed, and to my surprise, it appears that the default rotary is ON when you turn the 4x on. This defeats the purpose for lots of registrations (e.g., Booker T, Procol Harum, etc.) The only way I have been able to shut the rotary off is to set up a function switch on the bass side.

While this is a viable solution, it gets a bit more dicey when I want to turn the rotary back on and control the Leslie speed (SLOW/FAST) during a performance. NOW, i have to press two function switches on the bass side. One to turn the rotary ON and one to change the Leslie speed. This is pretty hard to do, while I'm playing, as the row of function switches is on the top row of the bass side.

I have read through the 4x manual many times to see if there is an easier way to do this. It seems to me that a foot pedal would solve the problem. However, I don't need another bulky, expensive pedal like the FC300 to haul around. I only need two switches. One to turn the rotary ON and one to change the Leslie speed.

I'm a little perplexed why Roland decided to make turning off the rotary effect so difficult. It would sure be nice if the 'shift switches' on the front panel could be programmed. For example, I have never used the Octave +/- or Sordina switches.

Is there a way to use something small, like the Boss FS-6, as a foot pedal for the 4x? I only need two switches, not ten plus an expression pedal.

Thanks in advance for your sage advice!
Steve

 

[Ventura]

lol

i am a little perplexed why you don't want to always have the
Leslie spinning slowly when it isn't spinning fast ?

what the hell good is a Leslie that isn't moving at all ?

ok, maybe in the privacy of your cave you want some kind of
purist zero motion moments, but if you are gigging, trust me,
no-one in the audience wants to hear an Organ playing through
a stationary speaker.. that;s WHY God made Leslies.. to save them
from such cruelty

 

[Tom]

Seems like a question for our John M.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Check out the Greg Vee Pedal.

 

[Thomas N]

I'm going to follow this thread. One thing I have never spent any time on with my FR-8X is the organ sounds. I've found one default patch that I use to layer under a Master sound to get near that Cordovox sound I grew up with. It's still not quite right, however. I know I can tweak it and the editor works well but it's always been good enough and therefore I haven't put the time into it I probably should.

Perhaps somebody here will have a few suggestions. Seems like a fun and worthy endeavor for me.

 

[Ventura]

well Tom, basically you have LL L M H Nosebleed
plus some odd footages like a quint accordion has

on Organ accordions, the force behind each is just on-off
unlike a Hammond which is gradual and alters more than
just relative volume

so in the Roland editor you kind of have an ability to
choose not just which combination you like, as Cordovox did,
but relative forces as well
(and don't forget the key click emulation has variations too)
(and don't forget you can have a brand new set of well lubed
drawbars or an old crusty growly nasty set)

the main thing to remember is that when using a non-even
rank, 1/3 2/3 3/5 you need to have a higher pitch even set
chosen as well or it can sound weird

if you have never had drawbars, i have a spare ORLA
MIDI drawbar module i could send you to mess with..
it's not like i need it since i have a bunch and the main
one i use now is the VK8m (Roland)

 

[KeysFla]

There is one amazing pedal that sends System Exclusive messages under $50. The system exclusive messages used for foot control 1-9 is found in this forum. Do a search…

https://a.co/d/1YSoX9p

 

[John M]

. . . I'm a little perplexed why Roland decided to make turning off the rotary effect so difficult. It would sure be nice if the 'shift switches' on the front panel could be programmed. For example, I have never used the Octave +/- or Sordina switches.
Is there a way to use something small, like the Boss FS-6, as a foot pedal for the 4x? I only need two switches, not ten plus an expression pedal. . .

Thanks in advance for your sage advice!
Steve

I guess Roland designed the Rotary effect to only do "Fast" & "Slow", like the original Leslie that only had the 2 position switch, with the 2 speeds designated as "Tremolo" & "Chorale". However, the Leslie speaker did not come out until the early 1940's when Don Leslie came out with his Leslie speaker. Prior to that, starting in 1935, Laurens Hammond only had stationary speakers that he sold with his organs. Hammond dealers still sold those stationary speakers until the death of the tonewheel organ in 1975. So, why Roland did not incorporate a "Stop" function in the software I don't know, unless they assumed all tonewheel organs only used Leslie speakers. In the 40's Hammond dealers, were not allowed to sell Leslie speakers. Their answer to the Leslie Tremolo was the Hammond capacitive rotary scanner that connected to "taps" along an L/C delay line for various degrees of Vibrato (V1/V2/V3).

Rotary Fast/Slow switching on my 8X can be programmed using one of the 3 chin switches. I don't think the 4X has chin switches. I looked in the 4X Reference manual. On page 29, you can set select Rotary "Slow" or "Fast". You could set up your 4x organ section with Rotary "Slow" and save it as a UPG (User Program). Then make a 2nd UPG, with Rotary "Fast". Now, you can switch between the 2 speeds using 2 register switches.

 

[Ventura]

i think they sold
(tried to sell/almost gave them away/prayed for a sucker)
those stationary speakers until the death of the tonewheel organ
mainly because once you heard a Hammond WITH a Leslie..

well, would you eat a peanut Butter sammich without Jelly ?

 

[StevePen]

I guess Roland designed the Rotary effect to only do "Fast" & "Slow", like the original Leslie that only had the 2 position switch, with the 2 speeds designated as "Tremolo" & "Chorale". However, the Leslie speaker did not come out until the early 1940's when Don Leslie came out with his Leslie speaker. Prior to that, starting in 1935, Laurens Hammond only had stationary speakers that he sold with his organs. Hammond dealers still sold those stationary speakers until the death of the tonewheel organ in 1975. So, why Roland did not incorporate a "Stop" function in the software I don't know, unless they assumed all tonewheel organs only used Leslie speakers. In the 40's Hammond dealers, were not allowed to sell Leslie speakers. Their answer to the Leslie Tremolo was the Hammond capacitive rotary scanner that connected to "taps" along an L/C delay line for various degrees of Vibrato (V1/V2/V3).

Rotary Fast/Slow switching on my 8X can be programmed using one of the 3 chin switches. I don't think the 4X has chin switches. I looked in the 4X Reference manual. On page 29, you can set select Rotary "Slow" or "Fast". You could set up your 4x organ section with Rotary "Slow" and save it as a UPG (User Program). Then make a 2nd UPG, with Rotary "Fast". Now, you can switch between the 2 speeds using 2 register switches.

Thanks John. This explanation helps me understand the Roland thinking behind the organ sounds. I appreciate your suggestion about saving two UPGs (one with FAST one with SLOW speeds). Another possibility I've though about is setting up one of the UPG registers defaulting to organ, and switching off the UPG button. This gives me access to all 14 organ sounds I've programmed while having the ability to switch the Leslie.

 

[John M]

. . . Perhaps somebody here will have a few suggestions. Seems like a fun and worthy endeavor for me.

Here's a few Drawbar settings I use on my 8X:
658000000 -- Good Jazz sound
658000000 -- Same Jazz with Percussion On, 2'-2/3', Attack-->Fast
608602003 Lo Standard Flute Tone - all even harmonics
406602003 Med - A little less foundation tone
508603007 Hi -Brighter on the higher harmonics

You can try these out. I never played a Cordovox, but I think "tweaking" the Lo, Med, Hi settings will get you closest to the sound you want. You will notice, most settings are with the "white" drawbars. The "1 brown & 3 black drawbars" are the dissonant harmonics and give the organ more of a "nasty" sound. Note that I always play my 8X through a Bose L1 Pro8. My Organ settings sound completely different if I only use the on board speakers of the 8X. The difference between my settings may not seem like much, but the changes are very noticeable through the Bose. Not so, with the 8X speakers, the sound is more "muffled". So, you really have to treat your set up as a "system" and have it configured the way you will use it. Have fun!

 

[John M]

i think they sold
(tried to sell/almost gave them away/prayed for a sucker)
those stationary speakers until the death of the tonewheel organ
mainly because once you heard a Hammond WITH a Leslie..

well, would you eat a peanut Butter sammich without Jelly ?

Yes, Once Jimmy Smith, Joey D., Tony Monaco and others came along in the '60's and later, The Leslie was the only speaker you saw with a B3. Today, you still can get a good price for a B3 and 122 Leslie. But without the Leslie, the B3 is hard to sell. Part of the problem is there were a lot more Hammonds made than Leslie speakers.

 

[John M]

Thanks John. This explanation helps me understand the Roland thinking behind the organ sounds. I appreciate your suggestion about saving two UPGs (one with FAST one with SLOW speeds). Another possibility I've though about is setting up one of the UPG registers defaulting to organ, and switching off the UPG button. This gives me access to all 14 organ sounds I've programmed while having the ability to switch the Leslie.

I'm not familiar with the 4X. With my 8X, if I have a UPG selected, and I press the UPG button, I just go back to the opening default menu that is an accordion setting. I don't think I can make my "boot up" default menu be a UPG--maybe.

I don't have a need to do that since I have all my organ settings with out any Vibrato or Rotary Fast. I use a Neo Micro Vent 122 that does a great job of simulating a Leslie 122. The Micro Vent goes in series with my 8X output and the Bose Pro8. There is a momentary button micro switch on the Micro Vent that gives me the 3 choices of Fast, Slow and Off. Also, there are controls for the Rotor Speed and the "Spool Up/Down Time" to vary the rate of the Wah-Wah-Wah-Wah--- sound of the Treble/Bass Rotors.

 

[KeysFla]

See page 11 of the Owners Manual. Item number 2.