FR8x midi patch changing

[WestCoastFR8x]

I've found a limitation that i'm sure can be worked out, but i can't figure it out! i have an FR8x with version 1.07 (latest). I can send midi to it just fine, by using menu 16.1 and 16.2.

But if i turn on midi for a part (menu 16.2 Accordion>On) for example, then i can't play the accordion "live", only through a sequenced midi signal. BUT, i want to play the accordion part LIVE, and send a program (patch) change at a specific time to the accordion part.

In detail, i have a song completely sequenced with a drum part, being played through a Roland BK7m. I want to embed a program change in that sequence to start the FR8x on Accordion>Set 6>clarinet. Then at a certain point, i want the accordion part deselected, and go to Orch 1>tenor sax...during the chorus i want to jump to a combination of Orch2>Strings AND Organ-Rock.

but i can't send patch changes with midi turned on, and if midi is turned on, i can't play the FR8x. (remember the movie Catch-22?) :hb

i do everything live, just sequence a few basic background things, and all the percussion.

Anybody tell me how to leave midi OFF and yet have midi control the patches? i think on other (external) keyboards like i used to have, there was a midi omni, or midi local...stuff like that, but i can't find any referral, and i now have the FR8x manual MEMORIZED! ha ha

thank you in advance!

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

and if you have the answer, pretend i'm REALLY REALLY dumb and need a great amount of detail! :roll:

 

[Glenn]

I don't have a Roland but one thing I can imagine us that the midi signal to the sequencer can get into a loop and sent back to the Roland, hence by default the playing live is disabled in this mode. Maybe you should look at the menus for routing midi in and out of the Roland and which ones are on or off.


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[WestCoastFR8x]

Yep, tried that...all midi OUT is disabled...thanx for the thought though!

 

[JIM D.]

Have Patience - We will get back to you on this one. JIM

 

[JIM D.]

"OK" I'm back. The information you are seeking is now an active subject on the FR-8x website -- Try going here -- <EMAIL email="rolandfr-8x@yahoogroups.com">rolandfr-8x@yahoogroups.com</EMAIL> or <EMAIL email="rolandfr-8x-subscribe@yahoogroups.com">rolandfr-8x-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</EMAIL>

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

Thanx for the heads up on the Yahoo group...i had already looked there, but i went back again. i couldn't find any specific answers to my questions, although there was some discussion on MIDI and the FR8x. So i'm still looking for the answer(s)...

thanx!

 

[AccordionAnnie]

I have the FR8X and the BK7M but still trying to fathom it all out. I dont think I have it set up right at all. I can get the Midi to work but I am not sure I am getting the best out of it. If you find an answer to your question I would be very interested.

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

I have the FR8X and the BK7M but still trying to fathom it all out. I dont think I have it set up right at all. I can get the Midi to work but I am not sure I am getting the best out of it. If you find an answer to your question I would be very interested.

Still dont have the answer to my question, but heres what i do so far...i create all my own background music using Aria Maestoso (free for both Mac and Windows), and save my song as a .aria file. i then use the export function to create a midi file, which i store on a USB stick. i fire the USB stick into the BK7m and use the USB function to call up the midi file. i then play my FR8x along with it.

Now, all i need to figure out is how to store my FR8x patch changes in that same midi file, and go from the midi out on the BK7m to the midi in on the FR8x.

I guess i could bypass the BK7m and get all the sounds from the FR8x, but i like some of the sound effects and patches on the BK7m that arent on the FR8x, and also, balancing volumes between the midi background (on the BK7m) versus the lead parts on the FR8x is a lot easier with two separate entities.

One thing i am now experimenting with is doing an audio recording of the the midi part using that function on the BK7m, converting the huge WAV file it creates to a 320 bit/second MP3 file, putting that on a USB stick, inserting it into the FR8x and playing along with the recording. However, i am still experimenting with getting the balance just right. The recording always seems too loud compared to the bass of the FR8x, and using the balance function to set the background recorded level on the FR8x playback doesnt help (yet...im still experimenting).

The biggest problem with playing along with an audio recording, of course, leads me back to the beginning...automatic patch changes...you cant embed patch changes in an audio recording!!!

Ideally...i would LOVE to be able to send midi to the FR8x directly from a USB stick inserted into the FR8x USB port...anybody want to bite on that?

 

[Glenn]

Does the BK7m have a midi record function? If so, couldn't you play the midi through it from your Roland and just press the patch change buttons at the appropriate moment.


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[WestCoastFR8x]

Does the BK7m have a midi record function? If so, couldnt you play the midi through it from your Roland and just press the patch change buttons at the appropriate moment.

Hi, Glenn

im not sure that would work (and i dont know if the BK7m does that). You see, the whole point of the exercise is to have the midi file play the background stuff through the BK7m and send the patch changes to the FR8x WITHOUT me having to stop playing or take my hands away from the keyboard of the FR8x.

So reaching over to press a button on the BK7m (which is behind me when im performing) would defeat that purpose.

Thanx for the thought though...keep them coming!!!

 

[Glenn]

No, my idea was to play the midi file from the Roland back into the BK7m and let it record it. When the time came you would press the corresponding patch change button on the Roland to add that to the data stream.

To be honest, the best way would be to load your midi file into something liked Cubase or any other DAW (desktop audio workstation). This would allow you to insert and edit any midi message you liked and even record as audio your performance. Lite versions exist for a few tens of pounds.

 

[ChrisH]

The BK7m cant record MIDI, but it can record as WAV files anything received as MIDI or audio input. It can replay WAV, MP3 and MIDI (including karaoke files). But surely the real purpose of the BK7m is to provide interactive backing based on chord information sent from the accordion?

There is an excellent BK7m forum where there are a lot of V-accordion users who can probably help with your interfacing problems...

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BK-7M/info

Chris

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

The BK7m cant record MIDI, but it can record as WAV files anything received as MIDI or audio input. It can replay WAV, MP3 and MIDI (including karaoke files). But surely the real purpose of the BK7m is to provide interactive backing based on chord information sent from the accordion?

There is an excellent BK7m forum where there are a lot of V-accordion users who can probably help with your interfacing problems...

Hi, Glenn and Chris

Thanx for your clarification on what you meant by midi recording Glenn, it would have been a great and simple solution if the BK7m did that!

However, thank you, Chris, for saving me :hb time on researching whether or not i could do it! The BK7m will supply backing based on the chord sent by the FR8x and this function is quite cool, but not the way i use the BK7m, nor is it a way that would suit my style (currently...)

Loading the midi file into a program like Sonar LE (which came with the BK7m) and inserting the patch changes at the correct time is a conclusion i, too, arrived at. However, lets just say that Sonar LE is not the easiest software in the world...and i do computer support as part of my job, and have been a database programmer for years!

On reading the FR8x midi implementation manual (download from Roland site: FR-8_MIDI_Imp_e1.pdf), i find on page 3, the program change paramaters to select Rock Organ (button 6A) would probably be

MSB/CC00: 0
LSB/CC32: 1
6

If i wanted a different organ sound, i would just change the 6 to whatever...

im also assuming that i would send these messages on midi channel 13 (which, according to the same page defaults to 0DH which is channel 13:

im now running an ad online locally looking for someone who can direct me on how to:

load an existing midi file into Sonar LE
insert patch changes (CC00 and CC32, also known as LSB, MSB) into the midi stream
export the resulting new midi file

Again, the object here: Play a midi file (on a USB stick in the BK7m) which contains backgrounds to be played by the BK7m, and which sends patch changes to the FR8x at the appropriate times, so that the new sounds come automatically without my hands leaving the keyboard. The new patches have to be sent, and the correct bank has to be selected to sound...so if when i start the midi file on the BK7m, it sends the correct patches to the FR8x, and selects the correct bank...

more detail: City of New Orleans starts with Jazz Bass, strings on orch 1, chorus wohs on orch 2. Chorus switches to Rock Organ on Organ, second verse switches to Chorus Guitar on orch 1, flute on orch 2, chorus back to Rock Organ...etc etc etc etc

(wow...enough detail???? :mrgreen: )

If anybody here can help me with that, i will gladly send along some $$$ once we get it working!

 

[jimgansett]

There is an excellent BK7m forum where there are a lot of V-accordion users who can probably help with your interfacing problems...

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BK-7M/info

There are many people there who might be able to help. You might try looking up Linda Herman on that group, she uses the BK in her gigging. Mybe she can help or knows someone who might be able to.

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

Contacted Linda Herman...what a nice lady!! She sent me her phone number and i skyped her. We talked for quite a while, she gave me advice on how she uses her entire setup. It's a completely different approach than i have in mind...i'm going to give it a try over the next few days or weeks, but i'm still looking for an answer to my original question!

keep the suggestions coming, i'm getting closer! :b

 

[ChrisH]

If you cant find the answer in the FR8X manual you may like to condider using a MIDI Solutions Event Processor, This is the Swiss Army Knife for MIDI users. In short, it is a little black box which connects into the MIDI link, and can be programmed to intercept specific incoming MIDI commands and generate an alternative command. You can then effectively set up any spare keys or buttons on the accordion which generate a midi command to provide the program changes that you need to send to the BK7m.

I use my BK7m with a Roland FP4 piano, and as an example using the event processor, I use the lowest black key on the 88 note keyboard to trigger a variation #1 ending to the the BK7m backing. I use other keys at the bottom end of the keyboard to send program changes for the solo tone.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm

Chris

 

[WestCoastFR8x]

You can then effectively set up any spare keys or buttons on the accordion which generate a midi command to provide the program changes that you need to send to the BK7m.
Chris

Hi, Chris...

thanx for the suggestion...i dont want to send program changes to the BK7m, but to the FR8x...however, i suppose your suggestion would work there too!

i do have Midi-OX, and can read patch changes, so i can find out the commands to send...my problem is how to embed those commands in an existing midi stream...please see one of my previous posts for details on what i am trying to accomplish...

and keep the suggestions coming...thanx!