Francini minuetto with weird registers ?

[isorry123]

Hey guys, looking at this Francini - I can’t figure out what the registers are. Looks like a student accordion .. assuming it has tremolo ? Ahh what are these switches. Can’t find anything to match on the internet

 

[Dingo40]

"Ahh what are these switches."
It's likely a two-treble reeds set (LM) introductory instrument with a repeated set of switches (as a sales pitch): a pretty sure indication of a lower level unit.
Even so, they were, generally, better made than the same range instruments of today.
Is it 3/4 sized?

 

[isorry123]

"Ahh what are these switches."
It's likely a two-treble reeds set (LM) introductory instrument with a repeated set of switches (as a sales pitch): a pretty sure indication of a lower level unit.
Even so, they were, generally, better made than the same range instruments of today.
Is it 3/4 sized?

You think they’d put redundant switches on there ? Does look pretty small - LM

 

[Ventura]

yes they would, and they did

you have to consider the context of the times

 

[Dingo40]

You think they’d put redundant switches on there ? Does look pretty small - LM

They certainly did! Hohner was just one such maker of many in the day!.
It was sales hype: from a distance, it made the impression of an instrument with more reeds!

"Does look pretty small - LM"
Looks like an introductory model meant for a child.
However, still good for busking!

 

[debra]

Redundant switches do make sense, because it means that the switch you need is always nearby, whether you are playing low, middle or high notes. I have an accordion quintet with three Hohner Morino players who have no chin switches. Changing registers is always a struggle for them, because often they play low notes and need another register that's down below (near the high notes) or they play high notes and switch to a register that's near the other end where the low notes are... We almost always have to find a compromise by either not changing register or changing to a different register than indicated but that is closer by.

 

[murathan]

You must understand the switch register language. If they are placed properly. They are read as vertically, up is bellows down is the keyboard. The dots shows the LMH (low middle high) register and sound colors combined. The stripes are for to show better the LMH combination. The total dot possibilities on the switches are the indicator of how much reed sets in the accordion. In this case its LM low middle 2 reed sets. The other same (copy switch) switches are visual enhancements. To look the accordion more sophisticated than it is... Here open-close term is rare I think if its original, means to close and open the low register (reed set) which there are 2 in total anyways.

 

[ColoRodney]

I had just read this bit about "repeat" registers here, and then saw on the Reddit accordion group this picture... which may take the cake for ghost registers.

 

[murathan]

I had just read this bit about "repeat" registers here, and then saw on the Reddit accordion group this picture... which may take the cake for ghost registers.

Another L'artiste model

 

[Dingo40]

Redundant switches do make sense, because it means that the switch you need is always nearby, whether you are playing low, middle or high notes. I

Maybe so, but what's the sense in habituating tyros to doubled up couplers when, should they proceed to higher models, that wouldn't be an option?
In any case, how many couplers can you duplicate anyway: what about the other, unduplicated, couplers (as often happens in LMM or LMH models)?
What's the point of doubling them as chin switches anyway? Make them all chin switches in the first place! (Nothing along the grill)

 

[murathan]

Maybe so, but what's the sense in habituating tyros to doubled up couplers when, should they proceed to higher models, that wouldn't be an option?
In any case, how many couplers can you duplicate anyway: what about the other, unduplicated, couplers (as often happens in LMM or LMH models)?
What's the point of doubling them as chin switches anyway? Make them all chin switches in the first place! (Nothing along the grill)

Chin switches are also limited due to the area and mechanism. As long as a switch is cheaper than a reedblock set (which obviously is) they probably continue to make them. Even Hohner still does it. My Hohner bravo 3/96 have 7 switches. Must have been 5. There is a slight advantage to change the switch from near you play, but not really worth mentioning.

 

[debra]

Maybe so, but what's the sense in habituating tyros to doubled up couplers when, should they proceed to higher models, that wouldn't be an option?
In any case, how many couplers can you duplicate anyway: what about the other, unduplicated, couplers (as often happens in LMM or LMH models)?
What's the point of doubling them as chin switches anyway? Make them all chin switches in the first place! (Nothing along the grill)

There are higher-end models with two rows of register switches, where essentially the second row has the switches in the reverse order of the first row, so as to have all registers available in one half of the keyboard area.
Chin switches have the advantage that you can continue playing while changing registers. The most you can have under the chin is 7 or 8, so you cannot have the 13 to 15 switches of many 4 or 5 voice accordions all under your chin. And you still need the register mechanism anyway even when the regular switches were eliminated. Some high end accordions have one or two chin switches that are "multi-position", offering a choice between two or even four registers under the same switch. Before you start playing a song you need to choose which register to select under that switch.
My (Pigini) bass accordion has just 4 registers (L, LM, LMH, LH) and all of them doubled as chin registers. But I believe that later in the production Pigini did away with the regular switches and offers just the chin switches. With 4 registers you can do that, with 15... no can do.

 

[murathan]

There are higher-end models with two rows of register switches, where essentially the second row has the switches in the reverse order of the first row, so as to have all registers available in one half of the keyboard area.
Chin switches have the advantage that you can continue playing while changing registers. The most you can have under the chin is 7 or 8, so you cannot have the 13 to 15 switches of many 4 or 5 voice accordions all under your chin. And you still need the register mechanism anyway even when the regular switches were eliminated. Some high end accordions have one or two chin switches that are "multi-position", offering a choice between two or even four registers under the same switch. Before you start playing a song you need to choose which register to select under that switch.
My (Pigini) bass accordion has just 4 registers (L, LM, LMH, LH) and all of them doubled as chin registers. But I believe that later in the production Pigini did away with the regular switches and offers just the chin switches. With 4 registers you can do that, with 15... no can do.

This discussion ended as Roland the "digital" accordion as the next step. People from Roland must have discussed these. I actually hate setup, on-off and charge ideas but many people wants the next step, doesnt matter how ridiculous are them. This also ended as High Inflation. You guys want the best of the best even in the grocery store?? So you pay the high price !!

 

[isorry123]

This discussion ended as Roland the "digital" accordion as the next step. People from Roland must have discussed these. I actually hate setup, on-off and charge ideas but many people wants the next step, doesnt matter how ridiculous are them. This also ended as High Inflation. You guys want the best of the best even in the grocery store?? So you pay the high price !!

Does seem to needlessly complicate repairs and stuff, all these extra parts

 

[murathan]

Does seem to needlessly complicate repairs and stuff, all these extra parts

Yes you are smart but not a retired rich hobbyist

 

[Dingo40]

Redundant switches do make sense, because it means that the switch you need is always nearby,

Yes and no!
Although various likely reasons are offered for the duplication of coupler switches, it seems to me this creates an extra degree of freedom which forces a extra, ultimately needless choice on the player as to which particular switch to use at a given time.
It may be trivial but it still drains some brain power computing capacity needlessly.
This is essentially similar to CBAs providing alternative buttons ( in different locations) for the identical note : it requires the expenditure of processing effort to choose the appropriate location.
Of course, sufficient practice with a specific tune will automate the required response, but it necessitates extra effort, no matter how little.

 

[debra]

Yes and no!
Although various likely reasons are offered for the duplication of coupler switches, it seems to me this creates an extra degree of freedom which forces a extra, ultimately needless choice on the player as to which particular switch to use at a given time.
It may be trivial but it still drains some brain power computing capacity needlessly.
This is essentially similar to CBAs providing alternative buttons ( in different locations) for the identical note : it requires the expenditure of processing effort to choose the appropriate location.
Of course, sufficient practice with a specific tune will automate the required response, but it necessitates extra effort, no matter how little.

Well, the CBA analogy doesn't quite imply the same. It is really a choice that is a trade off between cognitive overhead (to choose which row to use) and easier fingering, important for fast runs and/or complex chords.
The double rows of registers, the second one being the same but in reverse order, allows you to reach every register selection whether your hand is playing the lower half of the notes or the higher half. Sometimes accordion arrangements give you so little (or no) time to change register that when you are playing a low note and then need to switch the last register (often piccolo) and continue to play low notes you just do not have the time to reach for that register far away and come back to the right low note. Having every register closer by really helps. It is a choice here between cognitive overhead combined with physical possibility and simply physical impossibility to change registers quickly enough.
(Of course this is why chin switches are so important and some accordions have around 8 of them while others have fewer but some with multiple positions... all on higher end instruments of course. More budget-friendly accordions may come with 3 chin switches and when buying new it is very important to ask for the registers you need most in the music you play.)

 

[Tom]

8 chin switches? You could eat a whole sandwich in one song (I mean tune). I guess I would have to shave off my beard so I didn’t hit piccolo by mistake . Whew, glad I didn’t have to consider 3 versus 8 for more “budget friendliness.” Ok, gotta go play some simple Italian sh*t at the market. Now where did I leave that chin switch? Just kidding (sayin’)!

 

[debra]

8 chin switches? You could eat a whole sandwich in one song (I mean tune). I guess I would have to shave off my beard so I didn’t hit piccolo by mistake . Whew, glad I didn’t have to consider 3 versus 8 for more “budget friendliness.” Ok, gotta go play some simple Italian sh*t at the market. Now where did I leave that chin switch? Just kidding (sayin’)!

So far no problem with my beard and the 8 chin switches. The only problem is that this leaves 7 registers that are not available as a chin switch... and one of these is the piccolo. How did I cope with my previous accordions that had just 3 to 5 chin switches...