RowanSumner
Member
How many buttons would you consider a 'full size' button accordion to have? My Guerrini has 77 (with 3 false buttons) and I have found a tune out of range. I assumed this was full sized being 120 bass but I guess not!
Full Size Button Accordions
- Thread starter RowanSumner
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petch
Well-known member
105 treble buttons as that seems to be the standard (if such a thing exists in the accordion world!)
Rodney
Active member
120 bass buttons appeared to me as the size at which there is sufficient overlap at each end for most, if not all, songs to be within its range. It was on that basis I bought my Roland FR-8x PA, which I love. The only downside I perceive, apart from price is weight which doesn’t bother me as I use a stand, i.e. the more keys, buttons and reeds then the heavier it will be.
As you mention button accordion, I assume you are talking about the right hand treble buttons?
Are you counting the total number of buttons or just the bottom (or top in a B system) 3 rows as the other two are duplicates.
If you are talking about 3 rows, 74 playing buttons is a lot, so I guess you are counting all the buttons.
Let us know how many on 3 rows and we then know what we are talking about
Are you counting the total number of buttons or just the bottom (or top in a B system) 3 rows as the other two are duplicates.
If you are talking about 3 rows, 74 playing buttons is a lot, so I guess you are counting all the buttons.
Let us know how many on 3 rows and we then know what we are talking about
This could usefully be considered a typical full sized button accordion for a typical player. i.e. 5 octave rh compass G to G. Incidentally modern organs are also typically 5 octaves C to C. You can find older organs though that's start at A or G but don't go as high as top C.
A "Bayan" has 64 notes in the treble starting from a nominal E2. With 5 button rows, that means 106 live buttons I think. The largest 4-reed Morino Artistes (IX D and VI D) have 62 notes starting from a nominal B♭2 on B system and A2 on C system, with 102 buttons (all live). Their piccolo reed repeats in the last octave, but unless you are registering just the piccolo reed by itself, that is actually hard to tell.
My own one has the same nominal range but in LMMM, so I don't get the piccolo repetition. This Morino range is more at the top than a bayan and less at the bottom. Does that count as full-size? I don't know. Sometimes I'd like more at the bottom.
My own one has the same nominal range but in LMMM, so I don't get the piccolo repetition. This Morino range is more at the top than a bayan and less at the bottom. Does that count as full-size? I don't know. Sometimes I'd like more at the bottom.
Siegmund
Well-known member
I would certainly consider anything with less than 46 notes (which will come to about 77 buttons if you have 5 rows) to be not-full-sized.
There are several brands that just won't go past 46 --- which I assume means they don't want to need more than 2 rows of reeds per voice, and 23 is all they want to squeeze onto one reed block. My old Weltmeister manages 49 without needing extra reed blocks but it is a tight squeeze. And "4 octaves" seems like a nice round number to aim for, if you can fit them.
Most the companies that do go past 46 go all the way up to bayans (where, as mentioned, 64 notes / 107 buttons is the traditional full size.) even if they also sell in-between-sized models.
There are several brands that just won't go past 46 --- which I assume means they don't want to need more than 2 rows of reeds per voice, and 23 is all they want to squeeze onto one reed block. My old Weltmeister manages 49 without needing extra reed blocks but it is a tight squeeze. And "4 octaves" seems like a nice round number to aim for, if you can fit them.
Most the companies that do go past 46 go all the way up to bayans (where, as mentioned, 64 notes / 107 buttons is the traditional full size.) even if they also sell in-between-sized models.
I agree with Siegmund. 46 notes is full size, but that's for a non-convertor accordion. 46 notes fit nicely on a pair of reed blocks (as used on a 41 note piano accordion, often doubled for a 4 voice accordion). There are accordions with just a few more notes, like 47 or 49.
Convertor instruments often use one reed block for each of the three first rows of buttons so for all notes you need a triplet of reed blocks (often doubled for a 4 voice accordion). A full size button accordion with convertor has 64 notes. There are accordions just "under" that with 58 or 61 notes.
Convertor instruments often use one reed block for each of the three first rows of buttons so for all notes you need a triplet of reed blocks (often doubled for a 4 voice accordion). A full size button accordion with convertor has 64 notes. There are accordions just "under" that with 58 or 61 notes.
...though one must not forget the 'dummy' buttons added to the treble keyboard for 'aesthetic' balance. 
Siegmund
Well-known member
I sure wish certain manufacturers would forget that particular silly idea.
It is certainly a reason to always ask "how many notes" and not "how many buttons." I still find myself pushing and pushing on a couple of my buttons 2½ years after I bought it wondering why they aren't making any sound.
It is certainly a reason to always ask "how many notes" and not "how many buttons." I still find myself pushing and pushing on a couple of my buttons 2½ years after I bought it wondering why they aren't making any sound.
That's one cute detail about the Morino Artiste models (at least the original ones by Morino). For reasons of symmetry, there is a lone button in the fourth button row that isn't linked to any button in the first three rows (on the low end for C system, high end for B system). That button is live, so C system and B system instruments have different ranges when you look beyond the first 3 rows.
Siegmund
Well-known member
There may still be instruments being made today with this feature, or flaw, as the case may be.
I have here now a Mengascini F6 B-system, 17-18-17-18-17 buttons, 53 notes, such that the highest F is only in the 4th row. I don't have a C-system, but looking at photos online of the C system, it looks to have a low C instead.
That is sort of too bad, for me: when I transcribe string music I would really like my lowest 8' and 16' notes to match the open C strings of the viola and cello... but I only ever seem to see instruments where the lowest note is C# or E.
I'd call it a quirk. And I really milk that low A (in my case) for what it's worth. I have an Excelsior with MIDI sensors, and the sounding buttons and MIDI-accessible buttons run out on different places with some dead buttons to finish the instrument on either end.
