Grand Amore duet

[maugein96]

These two guys sometimes play in a duet, and they seem to know each others playing inside out. IMHO they compliment each others playing exceptionally well. Tiziano Ghinazzi, the older player, never plays a tune without a show of virtuosity, but its a nice steady valzer, which is nevertheless quite tricky to play. These guys make everything look easy.

There dont appear to be many big name CBA players currently on the go in Italy, although I tend to only look for them in the Bologna area, where CBA is still quite popular.

Sadly, it would seem that ROPA accordions in Bologna may have gone bust. They are rarely seen anywhere, and dont appear to have been made in large numbers.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi John,

This clip worked alright. (the other one didn't)

I can appreciate the talent, but I guess I am not all that keen on the music. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it is certainly worth a listen, but I will probably not buy the album.

All The Best,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

Hello again,

The music probably isn't very popular in Italy these days either, but as a dyed in the wool CBA freak it's the sort of thing I like. The similarity to French musette may be obvious, and it does tend to be even more repetitive than that style. When I get fed up listening to all that machine gun like staccato I listen to PA players in Brazil, but I know you don't like that either. You get albums made by French accordionists which don't feature any musette tunes on them at all, and they will typically have a Latin American or Spanish theme. I will admit my tastes are a bit unusual. I used to be into Andean music at one time, as it was good for relaxation, but the altitude sickness got the better of me!?

Other accordion music I like is Swiss musette (a subtle variation on French), Dutch and Belgian swing type stuff, Portuguese, Spanish, and maybe a bit of Sevdah from Bosnia for a change, but those are all definitely acquired tastes.

I'll listen to anything, but the styles I mentioned are the only ones I have any real interest in. There are so many different accordion styles around the world, and I reckon I'll be lucky if I've heard a tenth of them. My daughters loved Cajun and Zydeco when they were younger, and we'd sometimes listen to that for hours. I still give it a blast now and again, but it doesn't have the same appeal (for me) that it once had.

if you've ever heard me playing you'll know that my music is definitely not for anybody, never mind everybody, but I have a great time kidding myself on.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi John,

I'm sure that your playing is nowhere near as bad as you make out, though it is nice to hear subtle modesty from time to time.

My own relationship with the accordion may differ from most, as I view the instrument in an altogether more inclusive way. If, for instance, I were to be marooned on a desert island, I would hope that the other musicians washed ashore would have with them a diverse mixture of instruments. (assuming our instruments arrived on the island undamaged, that is)

The thought of all my fellow castaways being accordionists fills me with dread, though the odd one or two would be perfectly acceptable.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

Stephen,

I know you're into folk (the music), and I suppose that is one of the reasons the accordion is still with us. "Folk" would be lost without it in some places.

Any interest in your preferred music was dampened when I was at sea (no pun intended) when the ship had its own radio station. We had a guy who appointed himself as ship's DJ and he must have dug some of the worst folk type music out of the apple barrel, or wherever he kept it. We used to moan incessantly to him and asked him to play happy music as we got fed up cleaning the blood off the bulkheads as it was running out the speakers! He never listened and kept feeding the troops bad rations.

However, we got our own back on him. His other annoying habit was to blast out Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" incessantly on his cassette recorder (remember them?) We had been at sea for a couple of months and he would try and explain every nuance of the whole album until we were ready to keel haul him. However, one night we had an urgent task to perform on the flight deck, which included removal of the cassette tape and throwing it gently 60 feet off the deck into the Arctic Ocean in a Force 10 gale. We never admitted to him what we (I?) had done, but unfortunately the choice of folk music on the radio got progressively worse until somebody (me?) created an intermittent fault with the broadcasting system. Electrical cables on ships have a tendency to get damaged in Force 10 gales!

I like some of the more bouncy folk tunes but IMHO some of the 38 verse ballads that "Proff" kept hitting us with were perhaps best committed to a place where the mermaids might appreciate them, along with his Tubular Bells tape.

Maybe just as well at the time that my accordion days were about 10 years in the future or he may have taken revenge!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello John,

Do I remember cassettes? My early tape recorders were reel to reel jobs ........ cassettes still seem relatively modern to me.

I know that some folk songs are real wrist-slitters, but the stuff I play is well on the happy side. Anyway, I don't only play folk music. Though folk music features quite heavily at our club, most members chuck in a bit of popular music for good measure.

Last week, for the first time ever, we had a very new and very nervous member playing a Saxophone. In truth, it wasn't great, but I think her nerves really got the better of her. Our only rule is that instruments must be acoustic. Beyond that, people can play any tune on any instrument they can drag through the door. This musical freedom ensures that we get a very wide range of tunes, played on a wide variety of instruments.

Your self-appointed DJ sounds like a real scream, but you dealt with him appropriately. In the Army, we would have taken a more direct approach, probably making him watch as we destroyed the offending cassette. I was not always the big cuddly teddy bear that I am today ....... oh no !!!

All The Best,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Stephen,

The seas and oceans are full of stuff that caused grief between sailors.

I was once offered a job as a trawlerman working out of Arbroath, as I had family who were partners in a boat. However, my father advised me that the seas and oceans are also full of trawlermen who never came back. Never really fancied learning sea shanties on the box either.

It was regarded as the most dangerous occupation in the UK at one time, and with aspirations to become a musician I also needed to try and keep all the fingers I had.

On reflection I might have been better off taking the job, as the musician bit sort of passed me by. You're usually away at sea for about 8 days. Great catch= good money. Bad or no catch=no money, and you're self employed, so you can't sign on the dole during a bad patch.

Just remember the next time you buy "fresh" fish, that it may have been kept chilled in iceboxes in a trawler's hold for up to 6 days. Two days out, 4 days fishing, and 2 days back to harbour. Work it out!

 

[Morne]

John,
In that video it seems like Tiziano Ghinazzi is often playing only on the draw, whereas the other player plays both directions the whole time. Do you know why? Is it due to some diatonic background? Or some practical reason making it easier doing what he does when pulling?


Unrelated to the original tune, this talk of being on the sea reminds me of the Tiger Lillies album Rime of the Ancient Mariner:

This kind of accordion music might be quite opposite to what you like, though.

 

[maugein96]

Morne,

Reckon if those guys came on my ship Id just have jumped off the deck along with the cassette!

Back to your question. The answer to the three parts of your question are:-

No idea why, although the type of box he plays has bigger bellows (more folds) than usual. French boxes are the same

Dont think it has to do with any diatonic background, as hes not the only Italian player who does that, and in any case diatonic players need to play in both directions.

It probably is easier to play on the draw, and heres another player (Athos Bassissi) who does the same:-



I havent seen many Italian method books, and those I have teach players to push and pull the bellows, as do their French counterparts.

In Italian Liscio there are usually long enough pauses between phrases to allow players to shove those bellows back in at the end of each phrase. Youll see that it is done without the air button.

Youve got me thinking now, and I would say that most of my playing tends to be on the draw as well. The bellows are long enough so that only minimal use of the push is required.

Watch this one of Andre Verchuren, and try not to be dazzled by all the crazy colours in the scene. I know nobody should have hair that colour either, but that was France and their artistes are very image conscious, even if foreigners dont think much of that image! Youll see Verchu (love him or hate him) work the bellows in whatever direction he feels comfortable with.



I know nothing at all about the more formal accordion styles where certain etiquettes need to be observed, but for the styles of music I prefer the player has free rein to use whatever skills he/she has to get whatever kind of sounds they want out of the instrument. Whether they start and finish with the bellows open or shut is neither here nor there, and youve just alerted me to the fact that for about 35 years of watching and listening, Ive never paid any attention to which way the bellows are going at all.

Looks like Ill need to start playing again, maybe in front of a mirror!

Ive had a tentative look at Italian internet sites in an effort to solve this puzzle, but my Italian is practically non-existent.

If I ever discover anything that has been committed to paper or computer Ill let you know, but Ive a funny feeling they just play like that because it suits them. I can say that playing accordions with a lot of bellows folds means that playing on the push is harder than on the draw.

Here is Jo Privat, a former diatonic player, turned CBA. Youll see the bellows are pulled almost to maximum travel, then the push is executed as quickly as possible (or so it appears). His bellows technique just appears to be what works for him, same as the others.

 

[Geronimo]

Dont think it has to do with any diatonic background, as hes not the only Italian player who does that, and in any case diatonic players need to play in both directions.

Try finding a video of Piazzolla or traditional tango players pushing the (diatonic) bandonion. Fancy players these days play in both directions (and Id expect someone as ingrained with the bandonion as Piazzolla was to be able to work it on the push as well) but the traditional scales for Argentinian tango particularly on smaller instruments and the usual minor mode map to the draw, and Rheinische Lage instruments of smaller size are missing relevant notes on the push.

When playing something in the minor mode on a small diatonic, the main direction will be the draw. Dorian mode is a bit more balanced since the typical harmonization will allow for more pushed phrases, but the direction of the tonic will still be the draw.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Geronimo,

I'll have a look for a bandoneon player. I know Piazzolla is held in great esteem, but I've never been able to get into that kind of music. I don't know enough about the technical aspects of music it seems are necessary to get the best out of it. I start to lose interest in a piece after about 3 minutes playing time, and that's why I struggle with any kind of "classics". When I was in Norway they persuaded me to listen to Grieg, and I was sort of getting the idea, but I had more patience to apply myself to listening then. Bach also influenced he music of Jo Privat, who you would not normally connect with classical music (at least I think it was Bach!)

You may well have illustrated Morne's point though with regard to the bellows techniques he was querying. If I discover any kind of link between diatonic and the players concerned I'll put a post on.

Thanks for enlightening me to aspects of yet another accordion related topic of which I knew nothing.

My wife once brought me home a battered old little Hohner two row she found in a junk shop. My granddaughter caught her fingers in it while trying to play it so I put a hammer through it and burned it, as I couldn't get any music out of it at all.

 

[Geronimo]

Ill have a look for a bandoneon player. I know Piazzolla is held in great esteem, but Ive never been able to get into that kind of music.

Depends on who you ask. Tango and the bandonion are a marriage made in, well, brothels. Bandonions were poor Germans accordion substitutes and German immigrants introduced the instruments which happened to become an integral part of the nascent immoral tango dance scene. Piazzolla was a bar player wanting to become a classic composer. He had a sort-of classic concert where he included bandonions, a scandal which led to riots in the street but netted him a prize stipend in Paris with the famous music teacher Nadia Boulanger. Who basically told him to forget about classic music since he was not bringing anything of his own to the table but just copying others styles. So he studied counterpoint and went back to working with his bandonion, incorporating some more intellectual elements.

Basically everybody hated him but he brought something new to the table by combining the stuff he could not get rid of with the stuff he could not own, and people hated being bored even more.

I dont know enough about the technical aspects of music it seems are necessary to get the best out of it. I start to lose interest in a piece after about 3 minutes playing time, and thats why I struggle with any kind of classics. When I was in Norway they persuaded me to listen to Grieg, and I was sort of getting the idea, but I had more patience to apply myself to listening then.

Well, Grieg is sort of the archnemesis of the Stradella bass. If you thought Jazz chords were bad...

Bach also influenced he music of Jo Privat, who you would not normally connect with classical music (at least I think it was Bach!)

Bach influenced everybody except the people of his own time. Hes the kind of guy thinking up ever better punchlines after the party is over. Nobody can find them funny any more and tells him to go away, but if you look at the written down jokes a century afterwards, there is little denying that his were ultimately the best. Just not in time for getting appreciated.

You may well have illustrated Mornes point though with regard to the bellows techniques he was querying. If I discover any kind of link between diatonic and the players concerned Ill put a post on.

Thanks for enlightening me to aspects of yet another accordion related topic of which I knew nothing.

All diatonics have a non-trivial air button which you employ during play in order to balance the total amount of air drawn and exhausted.

My wife once brought me home a battered old little Hohner two row she found in a junk shop. My granddaughter caught her fingers in it while trying to play it so I put a hammer through it and burned it, as I couldnt get any music out of it at all.

Well, its different. Enough videos and tutorials around to prove that point I guess.

 

[Pipemajor]

Hi Stephen,

The seas and oceans are full of stuff that caused grief between sailors.

I was once offered a job as a trawlerman working out of Arbroath, as I had family who were partners in a boat. However, my father advised me that the seas and oceans are also full of trawlermen who never came back. Never really fancied learning sea shanties on the box either.

It was regarded as the most dangerous occupation in the UK at one time, and with aspirations to become a musician I also needed to try and keep all the fingers I had.

On reflection I might have been better off taking the job, as the musician bit sort of passed me by. Youre usually away at sea for about 8 days. Great catch= good money. Bad or no catch=no money, and youre self employed, so you cant sign on the dole during a bad patch.

Just remember the next time you buy fresh fish, that it may have been kept chilled in iceboxes in a trawlers hold for up to 6 days. Two days out, 4 days fishing, and 2 days back to harbour. Work it out!
[/quote
]Not many sea shanties in Arbroath then or now. I was brought up in a little village about 6 miles from Arbroath and went to Arbroath High School in the 50s. The music scene was predominantly
Scottish dance music and every village had a Saturday night dance which was a mixture of the usual foxtrots, quicksteps and waltzes interspaced with a Broons Reel or Strip the Willow or suchlike.
I played the trumpet in those days with a local band which played in all the local villages, and I would occasionally busk on piano or double bass if the player was sick or unavailable.

On the East coast there was no sectarianism and no shortage of local music events. Most towns and large villages would have a ceilidh once a week with fiddles and accordions and whatever turned up on the night . For the price of a pint or a wee heavy you would be treated to an evening of Scottish music with a few bothy ballads thrown in. Most musicians would compose their own tunes about local folks , places and events. All that and you would have a plate of stovies and bannocks at the interval. All for free!!
Happy days!! {} :b</QUOTE>

 

[maugein96]

Hi Pipemajor,

I have had the good fortune to experience the Scotland you describe, and it's a very nice part of the world. The only branch of my family with no Irish connections is from the Montrose area and we were fairly regular visitors.

In our "Irish" bit of Scotland things were considerably different. One of my school pals was a fairly accomplished accordionist, and played at the sort of ceilidhs you describe in church and village halls, where the "craic" was as you described it.

However, he would often be found almost breaking the windows of the local Orange Hall, when the same accordion would suddenly change its performance, according to the demands of the "Sons of William". If he hadn't obliged them his accordion would have "magicked" into the 3000 bits it consisted of before assembly. He also earned a lot more in tips at the latter venue.

Unfortunately it was often the case that the Irish sectarian and Scottish styles were indelibly linked in the circumstances I've described. My late father told me he'd break my fingers if he ever heard me playing an accordion, as he was a Protestant and my mother was a Catholic. As a lad of tender years I was inclined to do what I was told, and have never had a finger broken yet!

Sectarianism wasn't part of our life. It was our life!

Glad you never had to put up with it.