Help on finding Hohner Morino Artiste IX D Read Block Part

[yc360]

Hi,

The aluminum slide in the 4th reed block on the treble side on my old 1950s(?) Hohner Morino Artiste ix D button accordion needs a replacement. Any of the experts here might have one for sale or know where I can find the exact one? This accordion has 102 treble buttons. I have to tape up the reed for now. Any helpful information is greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

yc

 

[boxplayer4000]

In your pictures I think I can see bend(s) in the part. Are there any parts of it actually broken?

 

[Soulsaver]

If no joy on here/while youre waiting:
1) Ask Charlie Marshall http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Assorted_Parts.html#1
2) It is flat originally? Take it to a local engineering/presswork company and ask if they can planish it/roll it flat without altering the dimensions - worth a go if scrap as it is.
3) Ask Hohner - unlikely but possible they have them - if so it wont be cheap. http://www.peterunbehauen.de/p/07spare.html - Theyre not listed in catalogue, but Ive had items not listed before.
4) Take it to a laser cutting engineering works and ask for it to be copied.

 

[yc360]

Thanks for all the very helpful tips, folks! It was originally ok, I was fixing the silent reeds one and sticky switches, some problems (the silent reeds, many of them in the high notes) fixed but created a bigger one . Will try all these as suggested. Thanks again!

 

[debra]

Thanks for all the very helpful tips, folks! It was originally ok, I was fixing the silent reeds one and sticky switches, some problems (the silent reeds, many of them in the high notes) fixed but created a bigger one . Will try all these as suggested. Thanks again!

The Morino D series is known for having a rather primitive register switch system that causes problems and is never really smooth. (It may have been smooth 60 years ago...)
The aluminum strip looks like it could still be straightened so it may not be a total loss. In the Morino M series plastic strips were introduced instead of the aluminum. The mechanism was a bit better but still one of the weak points of the Morino. Its only when Excelsior took over the production, for the N and S series, that the register mechanism became a more modern one.

 

[yc360]

I am not familiar with the machine/metal shops here. I've attempted to straighten/flatten the slide myself with the primitive tools I have and so far it all made the case much worse . I'll attempt to make a plastic one and if if that works. But the thin hook part on the slide that connects to the register's metal switching rod may have to take too much force for plastic to bear. So maybe I still have to ask the laser cutters help in the end. Have no idea how much that'll cost me. The new Hohner Nova III 96 bass I have has a iffy switch for the musette sound, on a musette accordion. After I put everything back on the Morino taking up the block that misses the slide, I realized that the tripple musette sound is now gone! I thought German engineering would be the best in the world ... then again, Mr. Morino is an Italian !!!

 

[Soulsaver]

Let us know how you get on, we're always interested in the outcome of cases like this.

 

[Glenn]

It's frustrating to know that someone, somewhere has a box of these strips gathering dust under a desk (or worse, just been chuked out).

 

[yc360]

Per your good folks advise, I sought out a metal fabricater here in town and the guy Brian took the twisted slide in and promised to take a look and get back to me. He said this may take him a while and when he's ready he wants to compare his draft with the good slide I still have. Corssing my fingers! I also asked the Charlie and other accordion shop they don't have the piece I am looking for. Also, most of the metal shop said they can't do the long thin strip like this. Brian said he probably will use water-jet to cut the aluminum. The other laser-cutting shop in the silicon valley told me they can't do it because the heat introduced by the laser may crook the thin aluminum strip and therefore renders it useless. Anyway, now let's pray.... I really love this good old Morino from Scotland, the guy George shipped to California in 4 days (amazing!). I especially appreciate the 102 buttons and the great range it brings along with. Also the buttons are super sensitive and therefore making the legato I couldn't do on other CBAs before. The thick triple musette from Scotland took a little bit getting used to. But now I miss it sooooo much since the good old slide went into retirement! All the other musettes just don't give me the same kick! I routinely play 7 different accordions for fun, each speaks to me in different voice. But the Scottish musette is the best! Enough of my babbling. Will update once I got the result. Thank you all again!

 

[Soulsaver]

Let's hope Brian can come to the rescue. In your quest, as a possible resort, in the response to 'can't do it with ally' that you could probably use brass or stainless steel of the same guage, if their process can work with it better than ally?

 

[tonyg]

yc360,

There is no doubt that the slide in you picture can be straightened. I've lost count of how many register systems I've had to fix by straightening the aluminum slides.
The problem usually begins with the registers jamming because the slide has acquired deposits and then a little extra force and you end up with a problem like yours or worse.
I'd suggest that you ask the machinist if he can flatten it and polish it with fine steel wool. If I had your accordion in my shop with this kind of issue I would take out all of the slides and give them the same treatment. This makes a huge difference in how the registers will work.
I would be very concerned about the cost of having the machinist make a new slide. In the manufacturing environment these parts are made according to design using tools where all the pre-sets are worked out. Your machinist has to do all of that for a one-off....that will be expensive. You do not need to replace that slide.
Your Morino is a great box. I wish you well.

tonyg

 

[tonyg]

yc360,

I've been thinking more about your distorted slide and want to suggest another place to look for the underlying problem.
If you have not already checked this try moving the control mechanism to which the slide is connected. Feel if there is either a distinct snag in the movement or if there is resistance through the movement. If the mechanism is loose you could get one or both results. In either case dismantling and cleaning the mechanism is in order.

One more thing, since the slide goes into the reed block - after the slide is straight check to see that it moves smoothly, with no resistance, within the reed block. If it does not, use 1000 grit sand paper along both the outer edges and the top and bottom. This is a slow trial and error process that allows you to gradually remove the resistance, but not measurably change the dimensions of the slide. Once you've got it you can finish the slide with 0000 steel wool.

All the best.
tonyg

 

[JIM D.]

What tonyg advises in his last post is exactly the method I have used for years now with the addition of a coat of ELMERS Slide-All when re-assembling .

http://elmers.com/product/detail/e450

Good Post :tup:

 

[yc360]

Thank you both so much! I haven't heard back from the good fella Brian yet about if and for how much he can do this for me. The mistake I made is that I tried to straighten it out at home without thinking through this problem and understanding of the magnitude of my foolishness! I used the hammer trying to flatten it and using the forged vice and found out there are teeth on the vice clamps! Then I carefully hammered it flat as carefully as I could, but still the damage is done. Now I can get most of the slide back in the wood passage in the reed block, but not the part that directly connects to the switch rod. Plus, the hammering might also compromised the strength of the aluminum? To really flatten this long slide, I need a real true flat metal service and something to carefully squeeze it back straight as well. I don't know where such shop exists. Even the metal shop I called said they don't have a machine that can handle thin long stripe like this. At home I only have glass table that seems to be flat enough and metal ruler I can use to measure the straightness. But nothing can force the aluminum piece to reshape itself back ... I was over excited after I fixed most of the silent buttons on the treble side so I thought of stretch my luck a little by making some reeds sound even a little better, then this slide was mis-handled and my effort trying to correct the first error only made it a lot worse. Stupid me! The lube thing can work only if most of the slide can move freely, which was the case in the beginning. But my subsequent "corrections" already got the problem a lot worse than when it started:< I really really love this Morino, better than the xi v N. So if it doesn't cost too much and Brian can make one (actually I asked him to make two if possible just in case), I'll take it. By the way, "tonyg", if all possible can I ship the problematic slide to you for help? If so, for how much in your estimation? Thank you all so much!

 

[yc360]

Right, Sousaver. But the question of material haven't come up yet. They are obviously busy with more important things. This would be something as a hobby for them to do when they are free. I am crossing my fingers.

 

[yc360]

Another kinda related question to this one for your experts: just got a much newer Hohner Morino XI N yesterday from Germany here:
http://www.musik-center.de/hohner-morino-xi-n-5-chorig-c-griff-gestuft-gebraucht.html/ . It took the good German fellows more than a whole month from receiving my payment to my picking up the box at the front door, as opposed to only 5 days the George guy in Scotland to get the Morino iv d (what happened to the German efficiency I wonder). The N treble volume is surprisingly small, comparing to the much older D. The sound also is really Italian as opposed to the thick and straight German sound I was expecting. Then the treble buttons are almost next to the bottom without much travel, with the exception of one lowest note button, which looks like more of mal-function due to old age than by design. The rest are like laptop keyboard. This is day and night from the good old D - on the D all the buttons feel like siting on soft sponge that I can press half way and the sound comes out, really nice for legato. So I thought N being so much newer, the great tradition would get improved. Well, this XI N is quite a different box altogether! Sounds just like another good Italian box, gone is the sharp and thick German sound I was thinking of. I have another old PA Morino iv M, also very strong and unmistakable tone that I really like. Is this the way newer Morinos are evolved into or just the one I have happened to be this way as a one off exception? I opened the N and didnt find anything funny there. Somebody glued some newspaper on the treble cover (for muting I suppose?). I took them off, but the volume remain significantly lower comparing to the bass side, quite the opposite to the other older Morinos. Any expert insight/opinions please? I read about the German/Italian reed on different threads here. But some of you said its how the whole box put together that probably affect the sound more. So what happened to the newer Morinos? I checked the Hohner PDF file, this XI N is made in the 70-80s as opposed to the other two in 1950s if not earlier. Thank you all in advance!

 

[Soulsaver]

Hi I'm no expert on Morinos or indeed button boxes of any sort, but I would recommend you copy this question to a new thread, with a meaningful title - for example 'Morino N Artist XI treble volume/tone' or the like - where it will likely get more petinent attention. if you do, delete the last post here or you'll get 2 threads running along side each other.
Best wishes.

 

[debra]

Another kinda related question to this one for your experts: just got a much newer Hohner Morino XI N yesterday from Germany here:
http://www.musik-center.de/hohner-morino-xi-n-5-chorig-c-griff-gestuft-gebraucht.html/.. . The sound also is really Italian as opposed to the thick and straight German sound I was expecting. Then the treble buttons are almost next to the bottom without much travel, with the exception of one lowest note button, which looks like more of mal-function due to old age than by design...

This all sounds normal.
The Morino M series was the last that was truly made in Germany. The Morino N may well sound Italian because it was made by Excelsior (in Italy), despite it probably have the message Made in Germany stamped into it. You should also note that there are two types of button accordions: those that are essentially the same as a PA, but with buttons instead of a piano keyboard, and those that are constructed completely differently, having the button keyboard a bit further from the players chest. The mechanics is then very different. The Morino (Artiste) is essentially like a PA with buttons. A consequence of this is that because the buttons are closer to the grille than the tip of the keys on a PA (especially the white keys) the key travel is rather small. And a consequence of that reduced travel and of the PA-type mechanics is that the pallets inside the cassotto are raised maybe 2 mm, leaving not a lot of room for the sound to come out. The airflow is so restricted that when you place the reed blocks on a tuning table the A=440 when tuned correctly in the instrument will sound at at least 441Hz. The restricted airflow drops the frequency when the reed blocks are in the instrument. A final issue that contributes to the more muted sound is the size of the reed plates. The PA Morino has room for 45 notes (the models without melody bass only have 41 notes but have empty slots on the reed blocks). The Morino X and XI have 56 notes (and 5 reeds) but the box has the same size so more reeds need to be fitted in the same space. Hohner (Excelsior) achieved this by using narrower reed plates, and of course the space for the sound to resonate inside the reed block is then also smaller.
The result of all these factors is that indeed the large button Morinos produce a lower volume than the PA or than more modern button accordions. So from what you describe there may be nothing wrong with the Morino. Its just the way these instruments are built, and although the volume may be lower than you expect, many people really love the sound (timbre) of this generation of Morinos.
Regarding the bass side which you find to be too loud, the large Morino N instruments use a winkelbass (unlike the later Morino S series) which helps generate a nice full deep sound. The cover on the lefthand side also has holes that let the sound come out towards the player. So you may think the lefthand side is too loud and the righthand side not loud enough, but you should really ask your audience (or make a recording from a few meters/yards away to be your own audience). You may find the balance is actually better than you think while playing.

 

[yc360]

Thank you so much for the detailed insight, Master De Bra (bowing, bowing :>). I really enjoyed the extra button = treble range on the Morino. The 102 Artiste iv m got me hooked. So I thought I found the next best thing in this newer 92 button ix d. The funny thing is the old 102 button doesnt seem to have the volume contrast problem like the new only with 92 buttons! I like the xi n, just that its not the Morino I thought I am getting into. I really wanted a Morino artiste with lots of buttons but sound like the old iv m like this one: . Would be so much nicer to live in Germany or UK where I can actually touch and play the boxes before getting them! On the positive side, the bass on the xi n is much better and with far greater clarity than the old German boxes. I checked all the bass reeds on both of these older German boxes, they all seemed in good order (newer replaced leathers for example and in good shape) and sounded good individually, possibly needs professional tuning.
What got me started with the crazy for Morino is here:
http://www.akkordeon-museum.de/index.php?p=akkordeons&lang=en&cat=1
The Morinos there sound like dream to me and I especially like the older ones. The treble side on the PA iv m is actually quite close to the clips on that German website. But the bass is nowhere near it! Guess it may cost more to bring these older babies back to life in full than the price I paid for them in the first place. And it requires real expert ear and hands too .
Northern California is very Italian centric and I do love the beautiful sound of the Italian boxes. This box I got from charity auction for $200 for example simply blew me away with the clarity and beauty of the bass sound! And it was from the 1930s! It doesnt have the volume and impact of the newer boxes (again maybe a tuning issue?) but it sounds really sweet and nice! ... ...
http://www.accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3661
By the way, the last time I actually saw a real person with an accordion anywhere is a lady drifter on the street of downtown Monterey. I go back to China every year and accordion used to be huge when I was a child, but now I couldnt find one shop that has a box in stock! Supposedly China produces most of the Accordions in the world today, but I can only hear piano and violins from the neighborhood windows in summer evenings, but not once accordion :<... I found myself alone chasing after a dying dream where the boxes were glorious and beautiful. Just glad to be here and hearing you experts talk! Thanks!

 

[debra]

...
What got me started with the crazy for Morino is here:
http://www.akkordeon-museum.de/index.php?p=akkordeons&lang=en&cat=1

This page actually has a sound clip from a Morino IV M and a Morino IV S. The S sounds almost identical to the N. (The difference is that the N has Bugari reeds and the S has Cagnoni reeds and the S has improved mechanics. The built of the elements that determine the sound is the same for the keyboard side. There may be a difference on the bass side like having winkelbas construction or not. The minor sound differences is really due to the reeds used. The M has a very different construction and as a result even the newer M accordions that have Bugari reeds sound very different from the N series.
I hope you can learn to love the Artiste XI N. It is a fine instrument (but sadly no melody bass MIII part). I have an Artiste X S which is also a fine instrument (with MIII) but I cannot play it very intensively because of the weight of the instrument.
The key travel you complain about can be solved to some extent: there is felt under the keys to dampen the key movement. If you replace that by a thinner layer of felt you increase the key travel. An unfortunate side effect is that the frequency of the reeds in cassotto will go up so a lot of reeds then need to be retuned.