Help With Reed Identification
- Thread starter TonyChicago
- Start date
- Status
A better resolution picture of just a few reeds would be better to identify the type of reeds.
Roughly speaking there are three types of reeds:
1) machine reeds stamped out of a large sheet of steel and riveted by a machine. The rivets/nails then all have a flat head and the "base" of the reed (where the rivet is) is blue on top but shiny on the sides).
2) tipo a mano reeds, stamped out of a large sheet of steel, and maybe first riveted by a machine (or not), and then hammered by hand with a hammer, which generates "hammer marks". Again the top of the base is blue and the sides are shiny.
3) a mano (hand made) reeds, cut/stamped from a narrow ribbon of steel, the width of the base of the reed. The reeds are hammered by hand. The top of the base is blue and the sides are also blue (because the ribbon of steel is blue on the sides).
Typically the "tipo a mano" reeds are stamped out of the sheet of steel at a 90 degree angle of the direction in which the sheet is produced (and rolled up on very large rolls).
There are some more variations, for instance with the reeds becoming narrower towards the tip (most reeds are like that) or parallel over the entire length of the reed (large/bass reeds are like this but for treble reeds this is rare), and now another novelty: reeds that go through an extra heat cycle after initial filing/tuning, causing the whole top side to become blue again. (The bottom side of reeds is always blue as it is the color of the sheet or ribbon of steel.)
Roughly speaking there are three types of reeds:
1) machine reeds stamped out of a large sheet of steel and riveted by a machine. The rivets/nails then all have a flat head and the "base" of the reed (where the rivet is) is blue on top but shiny on the sides).
2) tipo a mano reeds, stamped out of a large sheet of steel, and maybe first riveted by a machine (or not), and then hammered by hand with a hammer, which generates "hammer marks". Again the top of the base is blue and the sides are shiny.
3) a mano (hand made) reeds, cut/stamped from a narrow ribbon of steel, the width of the base of the reed. The reeds are hammered by hand. The top of the base is blue and the sides are also blue (because the ribbon of steel is blue on the sides).
Typically the "tipo a mano" reeds are stamped out of the sheet of steel at a 90 degree angle of the direction in which the sheet is produced (and rolled up on very large rolls).
There are some more variations, for instance with the reeds becoming narrower towards the tip (most reeds are like that) or parallel over the entire length of the reed (large/bass reeds are like this but for treble reeds this is rare), and now another novelty: reeds that go through an extra heat cycle after initial filing/tuning, causing the whole top side to become blue again. (The bottom side of reeds is always blue as it is the color of the sheet or ribbon of steel.)
Yeah that's the only picture I was given unfortunately. But thanks for taking the time to look and respond.
Walker
🪗
Is that an American Excelsior? Very nice quality accordion anyway. Aluminium tone chamber, and reeds both pinned and waxed on quality wood reed blocks. The photograph isn't great but the reeds look like they are hand made to me. I'm no technician, but I'd say it's very nice.
American Excelsiola and my friend says it's a 730.
Walker
🪗
Cool, well it's a good accordion and will have appropriately good reeds. You don't wax and pin average reeds...
They are good regardless as to whether they are hand finished or hand made. Often both types of reed are made from the same type of steel. As Paul says some reeds are from a ribbon (usually a mano) and others stamped from a wider sheet (tipo a mano).
Actually the best reeds I ever saw were stainless steel - they were out of this world and totally different to the standard blue steel a mano reeds.
Even today, the highest quality Voci Armoniche reeds called Bluestar are not made from ribbon steel, they are made using the tipo a mano stamping process from a wide strip of steel. They are better than their regular hand made reeds...
When it comes to quality, sometimes your ears (for listening) and your hands (how responsive the reed is when played) is as good a judge of quality as your eye.
They are good regardless as to whether they are hand finished or hand made. Often both types of reed are made from the same type of steel. As Paul says some reeds are from a ribbon (usually a mano) and others stamped from a wider sheet (tipo a mano).
Actually the best reeds I ever saw were stainless steel - they were out of this world and totally different to the standard blue steel a mano reeds.
Even today, the highest quality Voci Armoniche reeds called Bluestar are not made from ribbon steel, they are made using the tipo a mano stamping process from a wide strip of steel. They are better than their regular hand made reeds...
When it comes to quality, sometimes your ears (for listening) and your hands (how responsive the reed is when played) is as good a judge of quality as your eye.
All the best.
Thank you.
Thanks for the insight. I'm not knowledgeable on the inner workings of accordions. I have a hard enough time with the outer workings of an accordion.Cool, well it's a good accordion and will have appropriately good reeds. You don't wax and pin average reeds...
They are good regardless as to whether they are hand finished or hand made. Often both types of reed are made from the same type of steel. As Paul says some reeds are from a ribbon (usually a mano) and others stamped from a wider sheet (tipo a mano).
Actually the best reeds I ever saw were stainless steel - they were out of this world and totally different to the standard blue steel a mano reeds.
Even today, the highest quality Voci Armoniche reeds called Bluestar are not made from ribbon steel, they are made using the tipo a mano stamping process from a wide strip of steel. They are better than their regular hand made reeds...
When it comes to quality, sometimes your ears (for listening) and your hands (how responsive the reed is when played) is as good a judge of quality as your eye.
All the best.
What's your take on these?
Attachments
Walker
🪗
I understand the Excelsiola 730 was known by some as the Art Van Damme and the 740 (4 voice version) was known as the Magnante model...
Here is a fascinating Accordion Gallery piece about Excelsiola.
According to Accordion Gallery the tone chambered Excelsiolas have the best hand made reeds.
Last edited:
The pictures are taken at the worst possible angle, but still it does look like the sides of the base are blue, indicating these reeds are made from a steel ribbon, used for a mano (hand made) reeds. Hard to say exactly because what we see from the sides is influenced
Yes, the reeds are from an Art Van Damme model.
That's an interesting read on that website. I have a Van Damme Excelsior AC-3 (with Midivox) but have never played an Excelsiola.
One day next week I'm going to take the reeds out from my Menghini and post some pictures. I was always told they were hand made so I'd like to find out.
Thanks for your input.
Walker
🪗
Totally agree Paul. Hard to tell whether they are ribbon steel or not. There is one thing I know for sure - that reed block (albeit it is fine enough) is not the quality of the vintage Excelsiola.
The second sets of reeds I posted were from a Sano 20.
Walker
🪗
Interesting! I don't know much about Sano but I have heard they were good. There's nothing wrong with it, but the instant I saw the Excelsiola I loved it (even before I knew what it was).
I don't really know much either about Sano but I can share an interesting story.
When Art Van Damme was playing Sano, he appeared in Cleveland, Ohio for a concert. My first jazz accordion teacher was there (probably before I was born). During Art's concert, one of his keys broke. Apparently Sano got ahold of some green wood (or something like that) because it happened to some other players as well. My teacher was touring with The Three Suns at the time and Art asked him if he could use his box. My teacher drove home as he didn't live too far away from the venue and brought his special made Excelsior for Art to finish the show. Now to be honest, my teacher's Excelsior was BY FAR the best Excelsior I have ever played. It even had a free bass row above the Stradella buttons but was a bit awkward to reach.
Thanks for your thoughts on things.
Walker
🪗
Thanks for sharing buddy. The heyday of Excelsior was a high watermark for the accordion. Many of the models - Symphony Grand Citation, AC series, 930, 940 etc. were awesome. Apparently Andy Arcari's Excelsior was a source of reference in the creation of the Hohner Gola 414.
By the way, speaking of Art Van Damme, this is quite interesting:
By the way, speaking of Art Van Damme, this is quite interesting:
That's a nice video!
- Status
