Hohner Student IVM 26/32 Bass Tuning Issue

[Nate74]

Hey all.

I picked up a neat little Hohner Student IVM 26/32 box a few months ago. Ive got the treble keys straightened out and all the issues on the treble side fixed up and its now playing pretty well. But the bass side has a couple issues Im having trouble with. The main issue is that when I press the c bass note, whatever combination of reeds that are sounding, seems to have an out of tune reed in there.

I went into the bass side and removed the smaller reed block only leaving the lower block. It appears to have a low C and a middle C that sound when I press the C bass button.

On the draw, its fine, but on the push, one of the two reeds is out. I go to remove the larger reed block only to discover that the two screws I removed dont free the block.

Hopefully you can see from the pictures below that the screws were holding in two blocks of wood on either side of the reed block. But it appears that the reed block itself is maybe glued in?

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/natemorefield/20161206_142755_zpswdzenfbv.jpg>

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/natemorefield/20161206_142809_zps5ixikkag.jpg>

Some of the wax appears to have dripped or been applied between the block and the box frame, but I cant imagine this is enough to hold the reed block in place.

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx97/natemorefield/20161206_142801_zpsrqtndrwb.jpg>

The reed blocks appear to slide into place given the slotted ends, but they arent budging at all.

So how do I get to the reads on the inside of the reed block to tune them if I cant remove the block? Is the block really glued in place?

Im SO scared to force it, though I have tried some decent taps with a small mallet.. :0

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

 

[Soulsaver]

Hi Nate - Is this quite an old Student? If its the same see here http://www.accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3347
Bottom of page 1, Kimrics post reveals the possible bad news...

 

[debra]

The bad news is that the reed block may be glued in place. But there is good news too: since the problem is on "push" it is the reed that is on the outside that is off. There could be several reasons other than tuning. 1) The leather valve (which is on the inside) may not open and close well enough. This is possible but not very likely. 2) The leather valve on the outside is not closing well enough. That makes the reed for "push" sound higher. This is more likely. 3) There is some debris that causes the reed to be out of tune. Make sure the reed can vibrate freely and is clean (clean with benzine if needed). 4) The valves are all fine, the reed is clean but the reed is really out of tune. I'd say less likely than problem 2) but tuning should not be too hard because you can actually get to the reed as it is the one on the outside.

 

[Nate74]

Good info guys. Thanks! I had to order some valve material for another issue I found so may just try replacing the valves on that reed too, since I think I had to order 12 of them... After that, I may have to bite the bullet and get myself a decent test bellows setup to really diagnose the C reed. Thanks again!

 

[debra]

Good info guys. Thanks! I had to order some valve material for another issue I found so may just try replacing the valves on that reed too, since I think I had to order 12 of them... After that, I may have to bite the bullet and get myself a decent test bellows setup to really diagnose the C reed. Thanks again!

Good luck! Keep in mind that it is rare for one reed to go wildly out of tune while others stay good. In almost all cases notes that go out of tune do so because of a valve issue, not because the reed needs tuning.

 

[Nate74]

Great point Paul. I've never had the nerve to actually try tuning a reed, and fortunately haven't had to. I've re-glued valves before but this will be my first all out replacement effort. Can't wait for my replacements to arrive.

This is such a fun little instrument, I'm hoping I can get it back to 100%.

thanks again!

 

[debra]

Great point Paul. Ive never had the nerve to actually try tuning a reed, and fortunately havent had to. Ive re-glued valves before but this will be my first all out replacement effort. Cant wait for my replacements to arrive.

This is such a fun little instrument, Im hoping I can get it back to 100%.

thanks again!

Since tuning is a destructive process (filing/scraping) it can be a bit nerve wracking at first. I received some training from Henk Vos who has been repairing accordions since a very young age (and his father use to build accordions completely). Just learning by yourself has become a bit easier thanks to the availability of helpful YouTube videos but you have to wade through them and distinguish good from bad techniques...

 

[george garside]

If the box is still in one piece or can easily be put together I would recommend that you press each bass or chord button whilst pressing and pulling very hard on the bellows. This can often bring reeds back to life and in my experience is well worth trying before tampering with reeds, valves etc.

george

 

[Nate74]

If the box is still in one piece or can easily be put together I would recommend that you press each bass or chord button whilst pressing and pulling very hard on the bellows. This can often bring reeds back to life and in my experience is well worth trying before tampering with reeds, valves etc.

george

I like your thinking George. I actually did try this when I first got this instrument. Seemed to help a few, but the last few stubborn reeds seem to require more. Interestingly, I discovered one reed that was completely missing it's inside valve. Hopefully the new ones I ordered arrive soon, was hoping to take this guy out caroling in a few weeks.

 

[debra]

...Interestingly, I discovered one reed that was completely missing its inside valve.

This is very odd. When the bass block is glued on it would be hard to remove a valve from the inside, let alone replace it by a new valve.
When the valve is missing from the inside the note should be seriously out of tune (too high) when pulling, but little influence when pushing.

 

[Nate74]

...Interestingly, I discovered one reed that was completely missing its inside valve.

This is very odd. When the bass block is glued on it would be hard to remove a valve from the inside, let alone replace it by a new valve.
When the valve is missing from the inside the note should be seriously out of tune (too high) when pulling, but little influence when pushing.[/quote]

Yeah, it really has me scratching my head. Theres glue residue on that side of the reed plate where the valve would have been glued on so it was there at some point. The waxing in there was so old it was really hard to tell if it was original or old replacement but somehow that valve isnt in there. And yes, the note was barely sounding but very sharp from what I could hear.