How do you play an augmented 5th?

[Marty S]

Somebody please explain something to me: As I have gradually gained exposure to other accordions, I’ve discovered that it seems my squeezebox is in the minority by not sounding the 5th when playing the dominant-7th chord button. So what I wonder about is this: How does one then play the augmented-5th chord on these other boxes?

Since I like to use augmented chords somewhat regularly this seems to me to be a significant handicap. There must be a way I haven’t discovered yet. Even though what’s then played is not a pure, “clean” aug—but is what a book I have calls a “substitute augmented chord” with its added 9th—I find it very useful on occasion. (The particular chords I use substitute, for instance, the E7 for Caug, producing C,E,G#,D.) What I’ve concluded is that here the added 9th still works because it seems that just as the aug 5th is a transition cord—such as in the progression C, Caug 5th, F—one can also use the common progression C, C7, F, and likewise one can just as well use C, C9, F. The only thing unusual here is that the accordion is playing not one or the other, but both (Caug5+9) at the same time.

But in fact, I find many times that the melody happens to pass through that 9th while the written piano accompaniment calls for playing the aug5th, so its combined use can’t be that terrible, although I still usually try to camouflage it by accentuating the augmented notes in the right hand. I think that while a trained musician listening carefully might be able to notice the added 9th (even when it’s also in the melody), most people just hear it as a “fancy chord” which doesn’t seem out of place.

But it seems one can’t do even that if the accordion in question plays all 4 notes of the dominant 7th chord? So how does one then handle an augmented-5th situation?

 

[debra]

What we have on a standard accordion is the ability to play three out of four possible "fifth" chords:
1) major, which is a major third followed by a minor third
2) minor, which is a minor third followed by a major third
3) diminished, which is a minor third followed by another minor third.
We cannot play:
4) augmented, which is a major third followed by another major third.
What we typically do have on the accordion is two implementations of the seventh: 1-3-7 or 3-5-7, where in fact 3-5-7 is just a diminished (E-G-Bb for instance is a diminished chord). On a real Russian bayan with Russian standard-bass system you in fact get 1-3-7 on the third chord button row and 3-5-7 on the fourth chord button row, so to play a diminished seventh chord you have to move one row down. (diminished row on an Italian accordion corresponds to the base note and on a Russian accordion corresponds to the next note up)
In the past there have been some rare accordions which implemented the 3-5-7 on the third row of buttons (which is what almost all 3+3 or 2+3 accordions do) and which then had the augmented fifth (1-3-5+) on the fourth row. Quite a surprise if you use one of these accordions and unsuspectingly try to play a diminished chord and get the augmented fifth instead!

So if you have standard Stradella, the simple answer to the question how to play an augmented fifth chord is: you can't.
You can, if you also add an augmented seventh. When you play C plus E-major you get C-E-G#-B which is C augmented plus an augmented seventh.

 

[Glenn]

Indeed Paul is correct. A ”pure” unadulterated augmented 5th as played on a piano is not possible in the left hand.

You can of course pass other combinations off as hinting at an augmented chord.
Have a look at www.accordianwise.com under “more chords” for inspiration.

 

[debra]

Indeed Paul is correct. A ”pure” unadulterated augmented 5th as played on a piano is not possible in the left hand.

You can of course pass other combinations off as hinting at an augmented chord.
Have a look at www.accordianwise.com under “more chords” for inspiration.

Nice to see this explanation.
I have just one arrangement for solo accordion (with standard bass), and that happens to be of two songs from the movie "Turks Fruit" (Turkish Delight), a famous Dutch movie from long ago, with music composed by Rogier van Otterloo (and originally with Toots Thielemans on the harmonica). The score is available at https://www.de-bra.nl/arrangements.html#turksfruit and I have a recording on YouTube. This piece uses many different chord combinations that are sometimes hard to reach (in sequence). In this piece bellows management is also very difficult as you easily run out of air unless you time it right and have an accordion with large bellows. (I played it initially on a Bugari 285/ARS and later on the CBA version the Bugari 505/ARS, both 5 voice which implies that it has large bellows. I have tried it on other instruments and just could not do it without running out of air.)

 

[JeffJetton]

I’ve discovered that it seems my squeezebox is in the minority by not sounding the 5th when playing the dominant-7th chord button.

I believe that leaving out the 5th puts your accordion in the majority, not the minority. All of mine are that way, and I've only had two students bring in accordions that were any different.

But it seems one can’t do even that if the accordion in question plays all 4 notes of the dominant 7th chord? So how does one then handle an augmented-5th situation?

Apologies if I'm over-explaining, but...

With the caveat that there are all sorts of weird accordions out there, so who knows?... Every accordion I've run into only plays three of the four notes for chords that, in their "full" form, have four notes. The question is, which one do you leave out?

For dominant 7th chords, leaving out the fifth is most common. It adds the least information to the chord, after all, and can be left out with the least amount of change in sound. As you know, this lets you put an augmented 5th (or flat 13) in the right hand without any conflict.

For diminished 7th chords, they also usually leave out the fifth, although of course it's a flat-fifth in this case. That lets you use the dim button for minor 6 chords too, and by picking a dim chord from the approprate row, you can get a true dim triad also. Since dim7 chords invert into other dim7 chords, there's a lot of equivalency in the let hand, and you can combine a bass note with the dim button that has the other three notes to get a "true", four-voice dim7 chord (in fact, it's often easier to play them this way for passing diminished chords that it would be if you played the "normal" version!)

Since the top three notes of any full dominant 7th chord are, themselves, a diminished triad, some accordions (such as 96-bass models) take advantage of that and voice the 7th chords that way. That is, they leave out the root instead of the fifth for their 7th chord buttons. These are the ones that will have trouble playing aug5 (b13) chords. It's not because they're playing all four notes--it's because they're leaving out a different note. The advantage though is that you can use that same row of buttons to play various dim chords. Since these accordions usually lack a dim row, the ability of the 7th chord row to play "double duty" is very handy!

 

[Zevy]

Play it with your right hand and play the root or the third with your left hand.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

As a general rule, for extended chords, play the triad from which that chord was derived with your left hand and the entire chord with your right hand. Choose an inversion of that chord in your right hand that has the melody note on top, unless you’re accompanying a singer, to avoid melody-doubling. This works for major and minor sevenths, as well.

There are bass-chord and chord-chord combinations possible in the left hand, but many of them are not satisfying, and I’m not sure if augmented chords can be achieved that way.

 

[Marty S]

Paul, thanks for your considered (and I see, fast) reply. I’m fairly new to this music theory business, so I’m proud of myself for understanding everything you said! That’s interesting about the major/minor thirds combinations, never thought of it that way.

The way you describe it, I see my box plays 1-3-7. I’ve been surprised to find of the 5 other accordions I’ve now played (including 2 new, high-end models) that 4 of them played 1-3-5-7.

That’s interesting about the Russian diminished column being down one diagonal row, and I’d like to find and try one of those 4th row augmenteds. Since I’m getting an old bayan (if it ever comes, just a basic Tula Rubin6 but a converter with 120 bass) I’ll be interested to see its 7ths and how the diminished is down one row. I don’t think that should be any problem.

I can play augmenteds but with an added 9th (or a 7th done the way you describe), but apparently then, as you say, instruments playing all four notes—1-3-5-7—just can’t.

By the way, this will probably horrify players who actually know what they’re doing, but for root-position 7th chords I use the diminished button one row up as you describe (this being an Italian noisemaker) to play the 3-5-7 coupled with the root bass to get 1-3-5-7. For the 1st inversion (2nd position) with the contrabass button I add the Major button (making 3 buttons pushed) to get all 1-3-5-7 notes (but not in that order), and for the 2nd inversion only—using the root button one row up—do I use the actual 7th chord button. For the 3rd inversion the root button two rows down with the major chord button. (To the additional horror of educated players I might explain that being a self-taught hillbilly I always use my thumb for the diminished buttons; this seems to me much more natural and also frees up the index finger for what may be coming next or for playing three buttons such as described above.) Thus the diminished buttons get used a great deal and the dominant-7th buttons hardly at all, although they are still important for that 2nd inversion 7th chord and making the substitute augmented chord 1-3-5+-9, perhaps more commonly in the 1st inversion as 3-3-5+-9 by playing the normal root of that 7th-chord button (making, as a practical matter, a C-E7-F chord progression).

Glenn, that guy’s website is nice. I put it in my favorites to spend a lot more time on. In trying the 7th chord (1-3-7) as described for an augmented in some songs I see it works too, but maybe because I’m more used to hearing the added 9th I think at least for me the 7th chord four rows up (making it 1-3-5+-9) usually sounds better. It also seems that about half of the time, the melody also is passing through that 9th making it blend in better. Another side benefit is that you’re also playing the 5+ in the left hand as well as the right hand.

Jeff, I’m glad to hear that my very small sample of accordions playing all 4 notes for the dom-7th button is not representative. Yes, I find the diminished button column very useful. It’s interesting how there are really only 3, 4-note diminished chords so every 3rd diminished button is actually playing the same chord, only deleting a different note. If it helps fill out the overall sound I will play two diminished buttons together—with the root bass note making a total of three buttons being pushed—although usually the missing note is being played in the right hand anyway. (Those 3 buttons are fairly easy since I’m using the thumb on the top button or maybe my pinky on the bottom.)

Like Zevy says, since the augmented 5th is usually a transition (say, from C on the way to F), I commonly use the third for the bass note (C though E to F). When I first started doing that, to help me make the big jump and find E, I’d hit D on the way.

And Alan, that’s a good point about using an inversion with the melody on top unless you’re only the accompaniment.

 

[Walker]

Well, it would seem to me that the augmented triad is easily and comfortably created with a freebass accordion, either with system of 5ths (sometimes called quint) or chromatic system (sometimes called minor 3rds). Both systems are converter instruments so you can quickly switch from standard bass to free bass and back again as required. I think this is a simpler method than the alchemy of combining mechanically pre-fixed bass chords in order to approximate the desired chord. In many parts of the world converter instruments are becoming quite common and I think, given all the Giuliettis and Titanos floating around America they must have been common there once upon a time. Alternatively Roland ownership seems to be a big thing in North America so that would be another way to check out 5 different free bass systems to find what you might like most as they all have their own quirks.

That's just my 2 cents...​

 

[Mike K]

Wouldn't a C with a C#minor chord do it? Likely not very convenient. C bass note would be above the G# bass.

 

[debra]

Wouldn't a C with a C#minor chord do it? Likely not very convenient. C bass note would be above the G# bass.

The C#minor chord button will give you C# E G#, and the C# in there won't go with the C base note. On most accordions all chord buttons will play 3 notes, so you cannot get just the E G# without that C#.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Paul, thanks for your considered (and I see, fast) reply. I’m fairly new to this music theory business, so I’m proud of myself for understanding everything you said! That’s interesting about the major/minor thirds combinations, never thought of it that way.

The way you describe it, I see my box plays 1-3-7. I’ve been surprised to find of the 5 other accordions I’ve now played (including 2 new, high-end models) that 4 of them played 1-3-5-7.

That’s interesting about the Russian diminished column being down one diagonal row, and I’d like to find and try one of those 4th row augmenteds. Since I’m getting an old bayan (if it ever comes, just a basic Tula Rubin6 but a converter with 120 bass) I’ll be interested to see its 7ths and how the diminished is down one row. I don’t think that should be any problem.

I can play augmenteds but with an added 9th (or a 7th done the way you describe), but apparently then, as you say, instruments playing all four notes—1-3-5-7—just can’t.

By the way, this will probably horrify players who actually know what they’re doing, but for root-position 7th chords I use the diminished button one row up as you describe (this being an Italian noisemaker) to play the 3-5-7 coupled with the root bass to get 1-3-5-7. For the 1st inversion (2nd position) with the contrabass button I add the Major button (making 3 buttons pushed) to get all 1-3-5-7 notes (but not in that order), and for the 2nd inversion only—using the root button one row up—do I use the actual 7th chord button. For the 3rd inversion the root button two rows down with the major chord button. (To the additional horror of educated players I might explain that being a self-taught hillbilly I always use my thumb for the diminished buttons; this seems to me much more natural and also frees up the index finger for what may be coming next or for playing three buttons such as described above.) Thus the diminished buttons get used a great deal and the dominant-7th buttons hardly at all, although they are still important for that 2nd inversion 7th chord and making the substitute augmented chord 1-3-5+-9, perhaps more commonly in the 1st inversion as 3-3-5+-9 by playing the normal root of that 7th-chord button (making, as a practical matter, a C-E7-F chord progression).

Glenn, that guy’s website is nice. I put it in my favorites to spend a lot more time on. In trying the 7th chord (1-3-7) as described for an augmented in some songs I see it works too, but maybe because I’m more used to hearing the added 9th I think at least for me the 7th chord four rows up (making it 1-3-5+-9) usually sounds better. It also seems that about half of the time, the melody also is passing through that 9th making it blend in better. Another side benefit is that you’re also playing the 5+ in the left hand as well as the right hand.

Jeff, I’m glad to hear that my very small sample of accordions playing all 4 notes for the dom-7th button is not representative. Yes, I find the diminished button column very useful. It’s interesting how there are really only 3, 4-note diminished chords so every 3rd diminished button is actually playing the same chord, only deleting a different note. If it helps fill out the overall sound I will play two diminished buttons together—with the root bass note making a total of three buttons being pushed—although usually the missing note is being played in the right hand anyway. (Those 3 buttons are fairly easy since I’m using the thumb on the top button or maybe my pinky on the bottom.)

Like Zevy says, since the augmented 5th is usually a transition (say, from C on the way to F), I commonly use the third for the bass note (C though E to F). When I first started doing that, to help me make the big jump and find E, I’d hit D on the way.

And Alan, that’s a good point about using an inversion with the melody on top unless you’re only the

Paul, thanks for your considered (and I see, fast) reply. I’m fairly new to this music theory business, so I’m proud of myself for understanding everything you said! That’s interesting about the major/minor thirds combinations, never thought of it that way.

The way you describe it, I see my box plays 1-3-7. I’ve been surprised to find of the 5 other accordions I’ve now played (including 2 new, high-end models) that 4 of them played 1-3-5-7.

That’s interesting about the Russian diminished column being down one diagonal row, and I’d like to find and try one of those 4th row augmenteds. Since I’m getting an old bayan (if it ever comes, just a basic Tula Rubin6 but a converter with 120 bass) I’ll be interested to see its 7ths and how the diminished is down one row. I don’t think that should be any problem.

I can play augmenteds but with an added 9th (or a 7th done the way you describe), but apparently then, as you say, instruments playing all four notes—1-3-5-7—just can’t.

By the way, this will probably horrify players who actually know what they’re doing, but for root-position 7th chords I use the diminished button one row up as you describe (this being an Italian noisemaker) to play the 3-5-7 coupled with the root bass to get 1-3-5-7. For the 1st inversion (2nd position) with the contrabass button I add the Major button (making 3 buttons pushed) to get all 1-3-5-7 notes (but not in that order), and for the 2nd inversion only—using the root button one row up—do I use the actual 7th chord button. For the 3rd inversion the root button two rows down with the major chord button. (To the additional horror of educated players I might explain that being a self-taught hillbilly I always use my thumb for the diminished buttons; this seems to me much more natural and also frees up the index finger for what may be coming next or for playing three buttons such as described above.) Thus the diminished buttons get used a great deal and the dominant-7th buttons hardly at all, although they are still important for that 2nd inversion 7th chord and making the substitute augmented chord 1-3-5+-9, perhaps more commonly in the 1st inversion as 3-3-5+-9 by playing the normal root of that 7th-chord button (making, as a practical matter, a C-E7-F chord progression).

Glenn, that guy’s website is nice. I put it in my favorites to spend a lot more time on. In trying the 7th chord (1-3-7) as described for an augmented in some songs I see it works too, but maybe because I’m more used to hearing the added 9th I think at least for me the 7th chord four rows up (making it 1-3-5+-9) usually sounds better. It also seems that about half of the time, the melody also is passing through that 9th making it blend in better. Another side benefit is that you’re also playing the 5+ in the left hand as well as the right hand.

Jeff, I’m glad to hear that my very small sample of accordions playing all 4 notes for the dom-7th button is not representative. Yes, I find the diminished button column very useful. It’s interesting how there are really only 3, 4-note diminished chords so every 3rd diminished button is actually playing the same chord, only deleting a different note. If it helps fill out the overall sound I will play two diminished buttons together—with the root bass note making a total of three buttons being pushed—although usually the missing note is being played in the right hand anyway. (Those 3 buttons are fairly easy since I’m using the thumb on the top button or maybe my pinky on the bottom.)

Like Zevy says, since the augmented 5th is usually a transition (say, from C on the way to F), I commonly use the third for the bass note (C though E to F). When I first started doing that, to help me make the big jump and find E, I’d hit D on the way.

And Alan, that’s a good point about using an inversion with the melody on top unless you’re only the accompaniment.

There’s an Italian company, Proxima, that designed a new digital accordion. They did a small production run that was sold out — and then Covid hit and one of their chip suppliers suffered a factory fire. Now they say they will start producing again, but their sole American distributor, Petosa, had no date for when the instruments would be available when I last checked.

Why am I telling you this? Because supposedly each chord button on their accordion can be configured with up to five notes of the player’s choice via an app on an iPad.

No, I’m not advising that anyone rush out and pre-order this accordion. Most experienced accordionists stick to Zevy’s approach. If the accordion materializes, all well and good, but so far, it’s vapor-ware.

 

[Zevy]

Most experienced accordionists stick to Zevy’s approach..

Thank you for the vote of confidence, @Alan Sharkis !

 

[John Doe]

I must be the stupidist person alive. I use the C 2 E 3 (counterbass) and G#/Ab 5 when I have the need for an other than passing C augmented.

What am I doing wrong?* Up until now I've been wallowing in blissful ignorance.

No smart alec intended- I just literally don't get it.

*A bit bass heavy/lacking richness from other than the primary bass reeds I suppose.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I must be the stupidist person alive. I use the C 2 E 3 (counterbass) and G#/Ab 5 when I have the need for an other than passing C augmented.

What am I doing wrong?* Up until now I've been wallowing in blissful ignorance.

No smart alec intended- I just literally don't get it.

*A bit bass heavy/lacking richness from other than the primary bass reeds I suppose.

Glad you said other than paassing!

 

[Ikesaccordions]

The brutal truth is that the 5th was removed from the sradella dominant 7th by most manufacurers in the last several decades or so. Then in case the melody contains an augmented 5th, the performer, who is the only person likely to notice a dissonance, unless playing slowly for an orchestra conductor, won't be frazzled.