I may be mad.

[Anyanka]

Yes, I've taken the leap.

On my way to Wales, I stopped off in Bristol and bought the Pigini CBA from the very very nice man known here as Craptiger.

After a week of playing, I'm having regular attacks of "oh my god what have I done", because I'm still not up to the same standard that I had on the PA (patience not my strongest suit - as the other Anyanka said in season 6, episode 1 "I was being patient, but it took too long").

But seriously. It's going to be massively hard, switching over my entire repertoire, but I believe it'll improve my playing, and reduce the physical strain - The Husband has found it noticeable how relaxed my right hand position is on CBA compared to PA. I find that some tunes flow particularly easily on the button layout, while others fight back. The more practice I've put into learning a tune on the PA, the harder it is to get my head around playing it on the CBA. I'm starting with the No.1 Ladies repertoire, mostly because it's the most important to me, but also because I don't play bass with it: even when the right hand is coming together, adding a familiar left hand triggers the familiar (i.e. PA) right hand habits...

Words of encouragement would be very welcome right now...

 

[jarvo]

Go for it....you know it's what you WANT to do.......I was debating whether or not go Button, but have found that my PA is actually inspiring better piano and keyboard fingering.....does not compute ........

I'll probably never play PA with that light key strumming technique that some use......but then again, so what ?

But you beaver away at those buttons .....it is clearly your metier


Jarvo

 

[george garside]

trying to play existing 'piano box' tunes on a continental is difficult because the auto pilot is programmed to send messages down the arm expecting a piano keyboard to be stuck on the end of it!

So rather than struggle it is quicker to work on developing manual dexterity on the continental and programming it into autopilot - so its back to scales and more scales , arpgithingies, and any other exercises you can come up with, It can also help to initially, and maybe for some time ,to use completely new tunes.

Once autopilot is able to fully recognise the continental keyboard on the end of the arm playing whatever tunes you want should not be a problem!

george

 

[Anyanka]

Thank you both. George, I've been practising the Tune of the Month on CBA only, finding it really easy. You're right - it is much easier to learn new tunes. Perhaps I'm trying to switch repertoires prematurely...

 

[dunlustin]

When I added a B/C/C# accordion after playing melodeon I found trying to play familiar tunes the worst possible thing - if a note has been on the push for 20 years and suddenly it's only on the pull that makes for scrambled brain.
Also some tunes sit better on some systems.
I think it's probably worth getting some specifically cba material. Apart from anything else, the pieces should be written with things like progression thro' fingerings/ building on the basic 3-rows etc.
The wealth of material out there is amazing or should I say endless.
I say this with just 6mths experience but I'd just add that I wish I'd bought a cba years ago. I was very tempted by that Pigini but decided against it - probably a mistake.
I wonder if you will have to drop the PA in the medium term?

 

[Matt Butcher]

Congratulations, from the way you describe it, it seems to me like you are going to be one of those people that clicks with a CBA, and if your instinct is taking you that way it's probably right... I'm not really surprised that you haven't transferred all your repertoire in the first fortnight... I did have a disheartening time when I changed over but I came out the other end before too long, and you're a better controlled musician than me anyway. I'm pleased about this too because this accordion has passed through the hands of two friends of mine in the past so I'm happy to follow it on its journey.

 

[Adam-T]

Fantastic --------- welcome to what Pigini do best (Making CBAs) . I`m sure you`ll overtake your PA repertoire in no time

 

[Glenn]

Congratulations on the new purchase (all grist to the mill that is the UK economy).
Did you part exchange your PA?
I fear that if you have half your repertoire on the CBA and the other on the PA you are going to have to shift two accordion boxes

 

[Pippa]

Thank you both. George, I've been practising the Tune of the Month on CBA only, finding it really easy. You're right - it is much easier to learn new tunes. Perhaps I'm trying to switch repertoires prematurely...

You know, I borrowed a CBA and did that too - I found in particular Agnes Waltz a lot easier on CBA than PA.

I ended up buying a PA this time, but I don't think you're mad, I defo want a CBA one day!!

 

[george garside]

Congratulations on the new purchase (all grist to the mill that is the UK economy).
Did you part exchange your PA?
I fear that if you have half your repertoire on the CBA and the other on the PA you are going to have to shift two accordion boxes

I would with this disagree! Its not a question of having separate repertoires for each layout but is about the essential truth ( according to Garside that is!) that the key lies in learning to play the instrument rather than tunes. It is to facilitate this learning process that I recommend starting with new tunes to give the brain and the fingers operated by said brain a chance to fully get the hang of the new type of keyboard which in 3 row form is simply a rearrangement of the piano keyboard. In 4 or 5 row form it is that plus a bit of a bonus! - same goes for exercises and scales.

Once you can really play the instrument you will be able to play new, existing or any other sort of tunes with reasonable aplomb!

George

(forgot to mention that there is a lot to be said for learning entirely on the 3 outside rows - it will pay dividends later! )

 

[Glenn]

I agree with you George. It's just that I got the impression that it was suggested to compartmentalize the repertoire between instruments.
I see no strong reason to play new tunes on the new instrument, apart from avoiding the feeling of frustration that you played it better on the old instrument.
As for the brain to hand mechatronics you mention, the CBA and PA are different enough to keep apart in the instruction pool of the brain. Well, thats how I see it anyway.

 

[Anyanka]

Thank you all for the encouragement (I need it).

I didn't part exchange, as it was a private purchase - but also I love my Pigini Wing and will only let it go when/if I'm quite certain that I have moved on completely. For now, I'm playing CBA for everything except Morris tunes, as they are my most frequently played; and I wouldn't want to take a Pigini to a pub stand.

George, thanks for the technical advice. That's always useful. You are totally right re learning to play the instrument rather than tunes, which is why I'm trying to migrate my repertoire: otherwise I'd have to split my practise time between the two systems.

By the way, I have tried to stick to three rows only, but find it limiting. I know it'll help with transposing, but it makes some fingering very awkward!

 

[donn]

How much transposing does one really do, anyway?

Last night I accidentally started a tune in G, that I normally play in C, and it turned out to be somewhat manageable even though I use all 4 of my rows. I think I'd rather take advantage 99% of the time, at the expense of some disadvantage on the rare occasion.

 

[dunlustin]

Anyanka

The reason you find fingering awkward on 3 rows is because it is - that's why most cbas have 5 or 4 rows.
I see no connection between sticking to 3 rows and transposing - the keyboard is symmetrical. To test this just move your hand one button to the right and you transpose a minor third - fingering is constant.
Also I have never seen a mainstream French accordionist limit to fingers only - books have fingering 1 to 5 and the guy in the Saltarelle video must be really unusual as he is using only 3 fingers. Now why would you choose to do that?

 

[donn]

Really - never seen Eric Bouvelle? Hes Mr. French Accordionist as far as Im concerned.

To be fair, he does find a use for his thumb occasionally, other than as something to rest his hand on. Chords, a few other things. The technique is clearly basically 4 fingered, though, and hes hardly eccentric, I think its really typical of the French 4 row scene. Though now that I think of it, he doesnt seem to make much use of the 4th row either.

It sure would make transposition easier if you learn to play tunes all on 3 contiguous rows. The pattern repeats on minor 3rd intervals, so you can shift a tune straight along the rows from G to Bb or E, but from G to C the patterns are offset. On a 5 row system, any pattern thats limited to 3 rows can be transposed intact to any key, patterns that use 4 rows can be transposed to many keys, patterns that use 5 can be transposed to 1/3 of alternate keys.

 

[Adam-T]

I have to be honest Anyanka, and no matter how many times George raps the old knuckles , I still learn the tunes on all 5 rows to get the job done as painlessly as possible and I don`t see anything wrong with you doing it with the No1 stuff either , if you want to learn the system properly I`d take that as a separate activity and use George's advice of learning on 3 rows (I am following his advice on playing the B/C/C# Scottish Chromatic though :mrgreen: ) ....... but then I`m doing this as a means to an end (to play in the Folk group), I`m not learning to be a top CBA player , never would be anyway

 

[Anyanka]

How much transposing does one really do, anyway?

Last night I accidentally started a tune in G, that I normally play in C, and it turned out to be somewhat manageable even though I use all 4 of my rows. I think Id rather take advantage 99% of the time, at the expense of some disadvantage on the rare occasion.

YES! Thank you, Donn, and Dunlustin, and Adam. You confirmed what I had just tentatively decided: why waste two perfectly good rows... with most of the stuff Tweedle writes, one needs all the extra buttons one can lay ones fingers on anyway; she does tend to use every note in two and a half octaves!
Im also realising, again, that I play very intuitively, and that I can carefully work out the fingering or follow someone elses instructions till it hurts, but as soon as I relax my fingers do things in their own (reasonably) sweet way.

 

[george garside]

[quote=" , and that I can carefully work out the fingering or follow someone else']

Its almost as if relaxing ones bits allows 'autopilot' to take over
george :tup:

 

[jarvo]

This is something that I fall out with fellow players over and over again......if playing a particular song ,say on the geetar

(I have not unleashed the accordion on anyone else but you sweet innocents...and a few at MacJams) there was always a point at which my mate used to say "but that's not how (insert artist) plays it" to which I used to reply

" That's right ,I'm not (Insert- etc),and if you want to hear it played exactly like (etc) put his/her CD on !!"

Now quite apart from the difference between me and recording artists skill levels I believe that fundamentally all of us have a different playing style from each other , some styles will be closer to others and some will be vastly dissimilar .......I think it is very important to let the inner you play ......the written piece is the music ....you are the interpereter..........

I'm going to get into so much trouble now :b

 

[Adam-T]

I'm also realising, again, that I play very intuitively, and that I can carefully work out the fingering or follow someone else's instructions till it hurts, but as soon as I relax my fingers do things in their own (reasonably) sweet way.

And I bet you play a lot better when they do as well . I certainly do . nothing worse for music than being tense