Improv, artistic expression…

[Mike t.]

I just now realized I don’t like improv. I like a little artistic expression, slurred notes, harmony, grace notes, bass runs added, a walking bass line is wonderful… but to hear my grandson’s sax improv in jazz band, (they say he’s really good) or a pro’s improv that lasts more than four measures kills me. I thought I was safe with fiddle music or bluegrass but no. There it was, me struggling to find the melody. Am I the only crusty listener that thinks the melody, most often should be heard? Also… I can’t tell a good drum solo from a bad one. I can tell a bad sax solo from a good one! I don’t have the skill set to play improvised solos but I don’t think that would change my close minded mind. Mike t. (Crusty) that’s me.

 

[CC_PDX]

I’m generally a fan of it. Whether it is jazz or adding your own ornaments in Bach or Irish, I find it to be where the creativity and uniqueness of the player comes through. Introduce the melody and then take it somewhere new. Sometimes you have to bring the melody back to give listeners some bearing on what’s going on, but I feel it doesn’t need to be on repeat for the whole song. That said, I despise endless extended noodly rounds of overblown soloing (jazz, blues and bluegrass are often prime offenders) where the idea is to play as fast as possible and cram as many notes as possible into one’s solo,

 

[dak]

I can’t tell a good drum solo from a bad one.

Well, a good solo contains enough improvisational elements while keeping the beat that you can afford to lose a drumstick near the end, fumble around for it, get a mallet out of your bag, throw it away, find another stick and finish the solo, and you need the video to see that something goes awry because the audio is not missing a beat.


Ok, maybe it's more the sign of a routined player. It's a matter of not getting lost but keep playing within or along a framework. I've heard free Jazz solos where I wasn't convinced that this was still the case.

 

[Tom]

As they said, “try it…..you’ll like it!” I love improv myself. Both to hear and to play it. But, as I suspect you are thinking, Mike, there is “good improv” and “bad improv.” You don’t need me to explain the difference. You like what you like. I hate when people “show off their amazing technical skills” but a good improv is great, allows the player to have some fun and say something new to the audience. I use the “intro, tune, improv, improv, tune, outro” formula. I will admit that I don’t always follow the chords on every improv, but always “come home.” I would become very bored only playing strictly the tune. Don’t think I could take it.

 

[Mike t.]

I mentioned my feeling for improv to a fellow musician today and they politely told me to keep quiet or everybody will know I’m a square! She said, it’s one of those things you should have learned to said you liked when you were a kid to keep from getting beat-up! She’s right… when someone offers you a breath mint, you should always take it!

 

[nou]

Well, a good solo contains enough improvisational elements while keeping the beat that you can afford to lose a drumstick near the end, fumble around for it, get a mallet out of your bag, throw it away, find another stick and finish the solo, and you need the video to see that something goes awry because the audio is not missing a beat.


Ok, maybe it's more the sign of a routined player. It's a matter of not getting lost but keep playing within or along a framework. I've heard free Jazz solos where I wasn't convinced that this was still the case.

You say „that is good drum solo” and I only hear a semi-random assortment of percussion sounds that are on a proper time grid but don’t convey any musicality that my brain can appreciate, let alone like… I’m not saying this to negate the quality of this solo, it’s probably amazing to the ears of a person who’s brain like this kind of stimuli. Mine does not to the point, where I don’t hear this „framework” he improvises within, it’s near random „jibberish”.

 

[JeffJetton]

There it was, me struggling to find the melody. Am I the only crusty listener that thinks the melody, most often should be heard?

Well typically (not always, but often) the melody is still *there*, it's just not being played. That is, you should be able to think of the melody in your head, or hum/scat/sing it (not recommended in public) as the solo is going on, and it should "fit". In fact, I'd encourage it, since it makes more plain what the soloist is doing in comparison to the melody, often creating what is essentially a new melody that works in counterpoint to the unheard one.

And there's a whole continuum of soloing styles that ranges from "more or less the melody, but with variations" to "good luck guessing what song this is!", and everything in between. The melody is still lurking under it all--it just gets increasingly harder to find it, and thus more effort to keep it in your head, as you move from one end to the other. Your grandson may have been far on the one end, which is always tempting--it's almost harder to play a good simple solo than a good chaotic one.

Anyway, improvisation is the defining characteristic of jazz. So if you're not a fan of improv, jazz probably isn't for you. Which is perfectly fine.

But it might be worth giving some solos a chance that are maybe more on "approachable" end of the spectrum. Here are some places to start, if you're interested:

* Anything by the Vince Guaraldi Trio, such as "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" or the entire "A Charlie Brown Christmas" album.
* Anything from Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" album, such as most of the solos on "Freddie Freeloader". (Although interesting to contrast Coltrane's "sheets of sound" style to everyone else's.)
* Oliver Nelson's "Stolen Moments". The first part of Freddie Hubbard's trumpet solo could be a song on its own. And Nelson's tenor solo is one of my favorites, starting on the approachable end of the spectrum, stretching further and further away, then dashing back for a lovely tidy ending.

Any other good suggestions from fellow jazzers? Maybe some Brubeck?

 

[losthobos]

If it ain't classical it's all improv or artistic licence anyway ...no two people play the tune the same ... especially on accordion ....
And once you've finished with Miles go check out some Chet Baker.... beautifully constructed solos without over egging the cake....