Interesting Fratelli Crosios

[NickC]

I came across a few nice looking Fratelli Crosio CBAs from this site https://atelier-accordage.fr/occasions



They look like nice instruments.

I was able to find another ad, which is suggesting that they were made by Beltuna?? Does anyone have any info about these instruments?
https://reverb.com/item/28583220-fr...prestige-2000-ampli-sound-2005-glittery-black

Both sites are appear to be in French, so maybe its made for the French market??

 

[debra]

That ad on reverb.com shows an accordion with typical Beltuna bass register buttons. The other two do not have them. They have more traditional bass registers. If I had to guess at who made this I would guess IMC (They make accordion with lots of brand names, but never their own name.)

 

[NickC]

Good eye. I didn't notice the different bass registers at first. Do you have more information on IMC, or where their factories are located?

 

[maugein96]

I came across a few nice looking Fratelli Crosio CBAs from this site https://atelier-accordage.fr/occasions






They look like nice instruments.

I was able to find another ad, which is suggesting that they were made by Beltuna?? Does anyone have any info about these instruments?
https://reverb.com/item/28583220-fr...prestige-2000-ampli-sound-2005-glittery-black

Both sites are appear to be in French, so maybe its made for the French market??

Nick,

Both accordions were indeed made for the French market, and Ill attempt to explain, in less than 11,000 words. 

The first instrument is now marked as sold in the shop listing. Fratelli Crosio made instruments of very high quality for the French market  for many years, and for a time they were the go to brand for musette players. They opened up a factory in Paris that ran between dates I can no longer remember. The info will be on the web somewhere, but might take a bit of finding. Basically they assembled and/or distributed accordions and parts that were made in Crosios main workshop in Castelfidardo, Italy. They also acted as a repair and tuning shop for accordions sold in France. The history is a bit vague, but when the backside fell out of the French market they pulled out and moved the whole show to Castelfidardo. Almost immediately they did so, a lot of French pro players took that as a slight on them, and refused to buy them, citing that the quality had declined since the Paris closure. 


As far as I can remember Crosio closed the Castelfidardo operation down in 1994.


That first instrument has the look of having been one of the latter ones to have been made in Paris, although I wouldnt put money on it. It is a pure French box, with 3 voices LMM (no cassotto), and the couplers are behind the treble buttons. Note the mushroom bass buttons on the stepped bass keyboard, and lack of bellows straps, two other French peculiarities. 

The bass buttons are listed as 3/3 (three rows of single bass notes on the inside with only major, minor, and 7th chords. There is no dim7 row on a standard French accordion).  

Please also note the instrument has only 4 rows of treble buttons. One other thing that is not so obvious is that French CBAs have smaller than normal treble buttons. There are reasons for that but Ill keep it simple for now. Standard tuning will be the second M to be about 8 cents up on the straight M reeds, and if it makes any difference to you the diapason will likely be 442Hz, compared to standard UK diapason of 440Hz. That means your straight M is already 8 cents up from anybody elses UK accordion, and the high M will typically be 16 cents up. If no other accordions involved it wont matter too much, although string players may need to tune up to match your accordion.  

That is as good an instrument as youll get, but the reeds will be nailed on cork or calf leather (yes really) and the box will have a brighter tone than a box with waxed reeds as a result. 

If you havent given up reading by now well move on to the black accordion. LLMM with two LLs and one of the Ms in a tone chamber. Were getting very technical now, and if Im totally honest, Ive never played such a beast. It is usually possible to switch one of the Ls out of the tone chamber, and one of the L reeds may effectively be a double bassoon tuned an octave below the other L. The M reeds will most likely be fairly close together, maybe 4 cents or even less, as that box was made for modern jazzy French music. 

I was unaware of any connection between Crosio and Beltuna, and the latter name is not even mentioned in the French language version of the listing. Thats not to say there wasnt any connection, its just that I wasnt aware of it. Castelfidardo is a bit confusing. If you can imagine Fiats, Alfas, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis all being made by the same guy in his back yard, until one of them decided to use his brother to make wheels on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, and his mothers uncle to plug the gaps on other days, that is the best description I can offer. Only people who actually live and work there usually have any real idea of who makes or made what. 

Craftsmanship second to none by people who live sleep and eat accordions gives us another superb instrument, again made for the French market with all the same techy bits as its neighbour, except that it has 5 rows. Why LL? To be honest youd need to hear it to understand why, and Ive been told that the issue of keeping two sets of bassoon reeds in tune with each other are vital in such an instrument, for reasons I dont completely understand. Basically, if it goes wrong, youre on a trip to France to a tuner who knows what to do with it, or go to Castelfidardo and bang a few doors until you can get somebody who knows what to do to put it right. 


Ive just noticed that the second photo you have posted is of an older blue Crosio similar to the white one, and hope I havent confused you by speaking about the one in your link, which features the black LLMM box?


In summary Crosio is a great make and you wont go wrong, assuming all the bits and pieces are in good nick, and have been well maintained.  


That was the short version!

EDIT:- Crosios Italian factory was in Stradella, not Castelfidardo. Memory failure on that one!

 

[NickC]

Thanks. That is all very interesting and makes sense. I'm wondering what the reason is for the smaller treble buttons??

 

[maugein96]

Thanks. That is all very interesting and makes sense. I'm wondering what the reason is for the smaller treble buttons??

Nick,

Smaller treble buttons. In Italy the CBA was seen as a viable alternative to PA and the treble buttons were of such a size as to allow PA players to make an easy transition from one system to the other, if they so desired. Various button diameters were used, depending on the maker.  

The very first French musette accordions were 3 row diatonic with normal stradella bass, known as "systeme mixte" (bisonoric on treble and unisonoric on bass). 

Playing technique on those accordions was a carry over from diatonic and the thumb wasn't used on the treble keyboard. In fact the buttons were so small as to make use of the thumb impractical. 

When the decision was made to replace systeme mixte with unisonoric CBAs (in France) consideration had to be given to those players who had not yet learned the advantages of the thumb on the treble side. 

Some makers in Northern Italy had already begun to make CBAs to facilitate change from the diatonic organettos, which are still quite popular in Italy, and they made CBA accordions with smaller buttons to allow the players to play without use of the thumb. 

The idea caught on in France and the teaching methods of the day in both countries prohibited use of the thumb on the treble keyboard completely. 

Eventually French makers settled on a button size of around 10mm, as did most makers in the north of Italy. However, the distance spanning an octave tends to be about 85mm in France compared with 90mm in Northern Italy, even when 10mm buttons are used. Italian teaching methods progressed to using all 5 fingers of the right hand earlier than the French methods, so 85mm was too cramped. To this day French button spacing is the same at 85mm, even although modern teaching methods now insist on using all 5 fingers. You'll see that a lot of modern French players like Galliano prefer Italian instruments with bigger buttons, but he is a PA "convert".  

Italian CBA instruments exported to other countries are to "internazionale" specification. I cannot remember what the button sizes and octave spacings are on those instruments, but although the buttons are pretty large, there is very little space between them compared to a French accordion, where the space is pretty noticeable.


What is the significance of all that? Well, if you switch from one spacing to the other, you'll have a bit of bother trying to hit the correct button, at least for a time. With practice a good CBA player can switch between the various button sizes, although virtuosity is usually only possible on one button size and spacing. 

I believe a similar situation can occur on PAs, but I know nothing about them. 

I know it all seems very technical. In brief, Italian CBAs tend to be more user friendly, regardless of the treble button size and/or spacings. Those of us who prefer French accordions just need to learn to keep the thumb off most of the time. Not all of the time, but if we find our thumb is one of the main fingers we've bought the wrong instrument. Fingers 1 and 5 are auxiliaries in French style. In all other styles finger 5 tends to be by invitation only, with the thumb being master of proceedings, but the pinky is indispensable in any French method I have seen. Might only be called into action occasionally like its big brother, the almighty thumb. Jo Privat, the revered French player, once explained that his conversion from diatonic to CBA required him to cope with an extra two fingers and an additional (4th) row of buttons. He maintained that the thumb was useful in French musette on CBA but the pinky was indispensable. 

If you study the relatively few French accordion pieces that show fingering, you'll notice that finger 5 is a more frequent number than finger 1. Probably unique in C system CBA, and a legacy from the days when the thumb was totally banned from the treble keyboard. I learned from the Ferrero method, and old Medard placed a total prohibition on using the dreaded "pouce" on the treble keyboard. 

Yet another short story on CBA, full of trivia (while I can still remember it all).

 

[oldbayan]

I thought Maugein acquired the Fratelli Crosio brand?

 

[Dingo40]

Interesting post, John 
Thanks for sharing your insights!

 

[maugein96]

I thought Maugein acquired the Fratelli Crosio brand?

Hi,

Nothing's impossible, but I don't think so. I only really took an interest in playing accordions about 1985, before which time I couldn't have told you one accordion make from another.

As one of the major accordion suppliers to France for many years, Fratelli Crosio moved part of their production/assembly to an address in Paris, using parts made in Stradella, Italy, and not Castelfidardo as I put in my previous post in error. I cannot now remember when that was. Until recently such info was relatively easy to find on Wiki, but there is now a dearth of articles concerning accordions on the internet. Almost all of my info was passed to me verbally by an old friend of mine who shared my interest. We also both used to subscribe to a monthly French accordion magazine, which ceased production years ago.  

I got mixed up with another Italian company, Piermaria, who had a similar arrangement in rue de Charenton, Paris, for a while. They assembled accordions from parts made in Castelfidardo. 

The Crosio outfit in Paris (wish I could remember where it was) appears to have been terminated about 1975, when all production moved back to Stradella. The firm effectively ceased all manufacture and assembly in France at that time, and was taken over by a firm in Stradella named "Federzoni e Bosoni". They appear to have bought the Crosio brand name, and continued to produce accordions "somewhere in Italy", branded as Fratelli Crosio. 

According to Wikipedia, Crosio finally went bust in 1995, and became part of a company in Stradella known as "Musicpool Italia". That firm are currently a distribution agency for all sorts of musical instruments made in Italy, but it looks like they no longer deal in accordions. Any accordion branded Fratelli Crosio after 1995, will most likely have been assembled in Stradella, by whoever bought the brand name, and I'm pretty sure Maugein wasn't involved.

They are located way down in Tulle, in Limousin, France (now known as Correze), and the only Italian connection I am aware of is they copied the Italian construction methods used by Domenico Cavagnolo, who had been making accordions in Lyon since 1904, when he moved there from Vercelli, Italy.

What did happen after WW2 was that Fratelli Crosio ousted Maugein from being the top supplier of MMM musette tuned accordions for the French market. Prior to Crosio moving to Paris they were "the" maker of choice for players who wanted loud MMM accordions.

You may have noticed that your little "Export" is a pretty powerful little box, despite its size, and that is a Maugein trait. I have a 96 bass Mini Sonora LMM and it is as loud as they come. 

Maugein have been struggling now for quite a while, and have only been saved from going under completely by cash injections from a local sports personality, and the local authority, who are keen to retain the factory and provide jobs for the handful of people who are still employed there, some of whom are part time only. Last time I looked 200 instruments was a good year.

If anybody knows of a Maugein/Fratelli Crosio connection, I hope they let us know about it.

 

[NickC]

Great info. The accordion has such an interesting history. I try to read as much about it as possible, but there isn't a whole lot of information out there aside from general info. I like to hear about the tiny details like this.

 

[maugein96]

Great info. The accordion has such an interesting history. I try to read as much about it as possible, but there isn't a whole lot of information out there aside from general info. I like to hear about the tiny details like this.

Nick,

I was lucky enough to be interested at a time when there were still a few publications available, although my interest has been largely confined to the scene in France and Belgium, with a dash of northern Italy from Emilia Romagna.


An old buddy of mine was a walking encyclopaedia on the accordions and music from those regions, and he had been playing before WW2. He switched from PA to CBA as his passion for French musette grew, and we used to spend hours whilst he explained the history and development of the instrument to me. 


I was 32 when I started playing in 1985, and know next to nothing at all about the accordion in the UK, or anywhere else other than the places I mentioned. 

I do tend to wax on a bit on the relatively rare occasions when French accordions are mentioned on here, but my memory isn't quite what it was, and gaps are starting to appear. I used to be able to save face by looking up the internet, but many of the old sources have now disappeared from there, largely because there was no need to maintain them. 

One great source of information could often be found on the CD covers (remember them?). A lot of great info was contained on those, often translated into English. 

I went through a rather prolific stage on the forum where I posted a lot of You Tube clips of accordionists from various places around the globe, often accompanied by snippets of information, if I had them. After quite a long period of activity I realised I was spending altogether too much time trying to cover my back, as there were several members (at that time) who would routinely challenge what I had written. 

One or two personality clashes and spats developed, and I can be a bit opinionated when I'm under pressure, so I decided to call a halt to it, having decided it was more trouble than it was worth. It finally dawned on me that I had been "plugging" the sort of music that floated my boat, and was effectively doing my bit to try and generate more interest in French musette. I'd never make a politician and it never worked. 

Accordion trivia is indeed fascinating, but not many people want to waste time reading and debating when they could be playing. 

Above all, enjoy the instrument, whatever your choice of music. Every now and then I go off the boil, usually when I get fed up trying to find online info that is no longer there. I've played on and off for 35 years, maybe 18 on and 17 off, and my first instrument will always be guitar, which I learned to play before I knew how to spell arthritis.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
Just keep posting, we'll keep reading!

 

[maugein96]

John,
Just keep posting, well keep reading!

Dingo,

There are so many different accordion interests on the forum that its often difficult to know whether any particular post is likely to attract much interest. I got the feeling at times that all I was doing was posting for my own benefit, and decided to pull the plug. I still put the occasional post on, as you know, although I now feel disinclined to post on the I like that board.

I know next to nothing at all about the inner mechanics of accordions, and I know as much about music theory as I know about the atmospheric conditions on planet Zorg. I am therefore unable to participate in discussions among the clever guys on here. Dont even mention digital or electronic, as I dont speak that language either, and I thought Midi was a canal in the south of France. 

The recording quality of the old musette tunes was often pretty rough, but to my mind that often added to the musette atmosphere. I often wonder if they made it all too complicated and technically advanced. I got rid of my old musette pur MMM Cavagnolo a couple of years back, as I hadnt played it for years. When I hear old fashioned stuff like this I wish I had kept it.

The player is Willy Staquet, a Belgian, who started late for an accordionist, at the ripe old age of 15! He had been a jazz drummer, but was persuaded to move onto accordion by his father, who was also an accordionist. Willy played musette, swing, jazz, and manouche. He was one of Belgiums finest players. 



A sainte-nitouche is a French term for hypocrite, although I dont know where that connotation fits in with the tune.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
All good and enjoyable!
Keep posting!

 

[NickC]

John,
All good and enjoyable!
Keep posting!

Yes. Agreed.