IORIO Accorgan Syntara with MIDI

[dgerold101]

Hello, my name is Dianna. I play an Iorio Accorgan Syntara with Midi and use a small keyboard for background accompaniment. For some reason, the C chord is no longer communicating with the keyboard. Has anyone else had this problem?

I also play a cavagnola with a midi module (Orla 800). The G and B Bass are not communicating with the midi module.

Everything else works -GREAT! I just can't figure out how to fix this issue! I would love your suggestions.

Thank you SO much!

Dianna

 

[JerryPH]

Hi Dianna, welcome.
Depending on the MIDI system used it could be just oxidation on the contacts or that contacts not touching and needing adjustment?

 

[dgerold101]

Hi Dianna, welcome.
Depending on the MIDI system used it could be just oxidation on the contacts or that contacts not touching and needing adjustment?

Thank you! How do I fix this?

 

[JerryPH]

Thank you! How do I fix this?

I am not the best person to ask this, but MIDI usually is triggered by contacts or small springs. These contacts are activated when you press the notes. Given the fact that you were already unsure about this part, I would respectfully like to suggest that you reach out to a local person that is good with such repairs, it might be a small quick fix or it could be something more dramatic like a connection or part needing replacement inside the tone generator. If you have schematics, that would help. Sometimes, with schematics a basic electrician repair place might be all that is required to fix things up.

The bad news is that your accordion is likely coming up to 50+ years old and the electronics back then were not known to be the longest lasting ones. I know, I own 2 accordions like this... my Iorio S3 is down due to a $2 part that no one can find, but thankfully my Elkavox is still working well.

 

[dgerold101]

I am not the best person to ask this, but MIDI usually is triggered by contacts or small springs. These contacts are activated when you press the notes. Given the fact that you were already unsure about this part, I would respectfully like to suggest that you reach out to a local person that is good with such repairs, it might be a small quick fix or it could be something more dramatic like a connection or part needing replacement inside the tone generator. If you have schematics, that would help. Sometimes, with schematics a basic electrician repair place might be all that is required to fix things up.

The bad news is that your accordion is likely coming up to 50+ years old and the electronics back then were not known to be the longest lasting ones. I know, I own 2 accordions like this... my Iorio S3 is down due to a $2 part that no one can find, but thankfully my Elkavox is still working well.

Thank you for this information. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of repair shops in New Mexico for accordions. I appreciate your frankness. Yes, it's from 1979 an oldie but a great accordion. It's difficult to play without a "C" bass; although I can play the accordion itself without electronics and the sound is amazing. Sometimes you cannot have all the bells and whistles. I still have the music and I am grateful!!

Can you recommend another "simpler" large electronic accordion - that would have less that could go wrong? Thanks so much!

 

[Ventura]

hello Dianna,

electrically, a switch is a switch is a switch, whether it is your coffee maker
or your car pretty much everything has a switch involved when it is
on sometimes and off other times

many switches are simple and direct, and obvious, like the
switch on your sweep-stick or the blender in your kitchen..
some have a click and hold themselves on or off, some you
have to keep holding

it is the same inside your Elka, for the keys and buttons and
also the electronic sound selectors

there are several types, the oldest being one piece of springy metal
is moved to touch another piece of stationary metal, thus completing
a circuit, which allows something to happen.. the Elka will have
something like this

then they had more modern circuitboards with carbon traces that were
sort of printed on, they are equal to wires or other metal for electricity,
but they have little rubber top-hats sitting on top of them, which are
pushed down by a key, thus completing a circuit.. the Cav likely will have
something like this

(there are even more types of switching systems using FET transistors
or encapsulated reeds and magnets or even lights)

for the Elka, any of the older, general purpose electronics repair shops
in Albuquerque, particularly guys that worked on TV's and such for ages,
would be able to find the contacts under your ELKA keys, visually inspect
them for motion correctness, spray them with de-oxit cleaner which they
have handy on their workbench, and otherwise test and make sure toose
"switches" are behaving like they should

if the "C" problem is not corrected by this, then the problem is in
the electronic "path" which the switch sends the "message" through to
the tone generating section. Sometimes this is interrupted by a bad
Diode or other discreet physical component that is part of the overall
switching system, which (for example) keeps the wrong "c" from waking up
when it's a different "c" that is called for

for one of the repair shops to work on that, you need the schematics
for the device, which will be likely impossible to find now. Some very skilled
shops that have a lot of experience with keyboards and such MAY be able to
"figure out" the path of the signal with their eyes and brains, but few and
far between nowadays

the switching system on the Cav is also complicated by likely having
a matrix and logic-controlled switching, since it is more modern, and
so it would need to be sent to a specialist (likely costing more than
the device is still worth)

next, you need to run some tests and report back to us..

you said your ELKA has MIDI, so you need to connect the MIDI OUT
to your ORLA 800
and report back whether or not the "C" bass note works that way
(through the ORLA sound system)..

as far as alternatives go, that is entirely up to your pocketbook,
and whether or not you are likely to be able/willing to learn
possibly complicated and different modern digital accordion systems.

you can research (here in our old discussions)MIDI (retrofit and new)
installations and kits info.. this is the path toward re-using your
Elka or Cav but upgrading the electronics/MIDI for a couple thousand $$

then you can start reading up on the new Digital accordions
(which have no reeds) for much much more $$$$$$$$

generally speaking it is amazing that your Syntara even still works at all..
that series of electronic design was the last gasp from a dying ELKA
and had many problems.. it literally put Kimball Organ co. out of business..
repair parts never were much available to start with as the design was pulled
from the market almost immediately and ELKA sank like the Titanic soon after.

good luck

 

[Alan Sharkis]

hello Dianna,

electrically, a switch is a switch is a switch, whether it is your coffee maker
or your car pretty much everything has a switch involved when it is
on sometimes and off other times

many switches are simple and direct, and obvious, like the
switch on your sweep-stick or the blender in your kitchen..
some have a click and hold themselves on or off, some you
have to keep holding

it is the same inside your Elka, for the keys and buttons and
also the electronic sound selectors

there are several types, the oldest being one piece of springy metal
is moved to touch another piece of stationary metal, thus completing
a circuit, which allows something to happen.. the Elka will have
something like this

then they had more modern circuitboards with carbon traces that were
sort of printed on, they are equal to wires or other metal for electricity,
but they have little rubber top-hats sitting on top of them, which are
pushed down by a key, thus completing a circuit.. the Cav likely will have
something like this

(there are even more types of switching systems using FET transistors
or encapsulated reeds and magnets or even lights)

for the Elka, any of the older, general purpose electronics repair shops
in Albuquerque, particularly guys that worked on TV's and such for ages,
would be able to find the contacts under your ELKA keys, visually inspect
them for motion correctness, spray them with de-oxit cleaner which they
have handy on their workbench, and otherwise test and make sure toose
"switches" are behaving like they should

if the "C" problem is not corrected by this, then the problem is in
the electronic "path" which the switch sends the "message" through to
the tone generating section. Sometimes this is interrupted by a bad
Diode or other discreet physical component that is part of the overall
switching system, which (for example) keeps the wrong "c" from waking up
when it's a different "c" that is called for

for one of the repair shops to work on that, you need the schematics
for the device, which will be likely impossible to find now. Some very skilled
shops that have a lot of experience with keyboards and such MAY be able to
"figure out" the path of the signal with their eyes and brains, but few and
far between nowadays

the switching system on the Cav is also complicated by likely having
a matrix and logic-controlled switching, since it is more modern, and
so it would need to be sent to a specialist (likely costing more than
the device is still worth)

next, you need to run some tests and report back to us..

you said your ELKA has MIDI, so you need to connect the MIDI OUT
to your ORLA 800
and report back whether or not the "C" bass note works that way
(through the ORLA sound system)..

as far as alternatives go, that is entirely up to your pocketbook,
and whether or not you are likely to be able/willing to learn
possibly complicated and different modern digital accordion systems.

you can research (here in our old discussions)MIDI (retrofit and new)
installations and kits info.. this is the path toward re-using your
Elka or Cav but upgrading the electronics/MIDI for a couple thousand $$

then you can start reading up on the new Digital accordions
(which have no reeds) for much much more $$$$$$$$

generally speaking it is amazing that your Syntara even still works at all..
that series of electronic design was the last gasp from a dying ELKA
and had many problems.. it literally put Kimball Organ co. out of business..
repair parts never were much available to start with as the design was pulled
from the market almost immediately and ELKA sank like the Titanic soon after.

good luck

I’m of the opinion that no switching system is completely maintenance-free. Somebody I know claims that the mechanical contacts in his old Petosa with LS-2000 MIDI are gold-plated and will never corrode. But I’m convinced that those switches can fail in some other way, and since they’re installed under the keys, it would not be a simple process to service them.

I’ve owned three MIDI devices with Hall Effect switches, and I’m indebted to the dealer who sold me the first one for showing me what to do if they get out of adjustment. I’ve heard that reed switches can also go out of adjustment in a similar fashion.

As for optical switches, AFAIK only one accordion manufacturer uses them, so they’d have to go back to the factory if they fail.

Greg V recently posted a picture on Facebook of his successful repair of the bass side switches in a Roland, and they are similar to what you described as carbon traces and rubber hats.

It could be that the switches are the weak link in any electronic musical device.