Is swapping reeds a thing?

[ColoRodney]

So, a couple of old posts I came across warned about getting your beautiful old Excelsior worked on because an unscrupulous technician might steal the handmade reeds out and put in cheap factory-made reeds and you might be none the wiser.

I first thought "is that really a thing that happens?" Sounds like a LOT of work compared to just buying a set of handmade reeds, unless the reed blocks are exactly the same size, which could make it simple.

And then I thought, could I have someone take the reeds or reed plates out of an accordion where I don't like the keyboard action but the reeds are really nice; and put them into an accordion where I like the keyboard action but the bassoon reeds are really sluggish? It would probably involve a lot of working with wax and probably re-tuning the reeds.

Anyway, mostly just an idle thought, but I'm curious if someone who knows something can set me straight.

 

[isorry123]

So, a couple of old posts I came across warned about getting your beautiful old Excelsior worked on because an unscrupulous technician might steal the handmade reeds out and put in cheap factory-made reeds and you might be none the wiser.

I first thought "is that really a thing that happens?" Sounds like a LOT of work compared to just buying a set of handmade reeds, unless the reed blocks are exactly the same size, which could make it simple.

And then I thought, could I have someone take the reeds or reed plates out of an accordion where I don't like the keyboard action but the reeds are really nice; and put them into an accordion where I like the keyboard action but the bassoon reeds are really sluggish? It would probably involve a lot of working with wax and probably re-tuning the reeds.

Anyway, mostly just an idle thought, but I'm curious if someone who knows something can set me straight.

1) pretty sure every accordion technician in the western hemisphere is in this forum
2) I would say you’re just as likely to get razor blades in your Halloween candy than have reeds maliciously swapped
3) I think pulling good reeds out of “scrap” boxes to put in new boxes could definitely have merit. Did a repair in a friends accordion and they were literally missing 3 bass root reeds. Would love to have had some scrap hanging around

 

[debra]

So, a couple of old posts I came across warned about getting your beautiful old Excelsior worked on because an unscrupulous technician might steal the handmade reeds out and put in cheap factory-made reeds and you might be none the wiser.

I first thought "is that really a thing that happens?" Sounds like a LOT of work compared to just buying a set of handmade reeds, unless the reed blocks are exactly the same size, which could make it simple.

And then I thought, could I have someone take the reeds or reed plates out of an accordion where I don't like the keyboard action but the reeds are really nice; and put them into an accordion where I like the keyboard action but the bassoon reeds are really sluggish? It would probably involve a lot of working with wax and probably re-tuning the reeds.

Anyway, mostly just an idle thought, but I'm curious if someone who knows something can set me straight.

Sadly the reeds being stolen (or players being coaxed into having the reeds replaced because they are worn out) is a reality, with reeds from legendary accordions like the 1960's Scandalli Super VI or Hohner Gola. Repairers who do this may want to move these reeds to a newer high quality accordion to make it even better. They replace the reeds by new reeds, perhaps still of good quality, but 21st century reeds just are not the same as reeds from 1960.
If you wanted reeds to be moved from one accordion to another most repairers will be willing to do this, but of course it is quite an elaborate repair job. There is a caveat though: it is only a manageable job if both reed sets have reed plates that are the same size for the same notes. If the new reed plates are longer then new reed blocks need to be built and it becomes such a big job that it is no longer realistic (and many repairers cannot build new reed blocks). There can be other problems too. I for instance would like to put better reed plates in my Morino Artiste but it has special extra-narrow reed plates so before new reeds can be put in the new reed plates all need to be sanded down to make them narrower... I have done it for a single reed plate but don't want to do it for over 200 reed plates!

 

[Tor]

Well, Paul, now you have an excuse to buy a milling machine.  Still a good bit of work to resize 200 reed plates, but you can surely make a suitable jaw for your vise to make it trivial monkeywork, and aluminum is soft enough you can likely take all the material in one pass of the end mill.  A few swipes on suitable sandpaper after to break the edge and make it safe to handle and you're done.

 

[debra]

Well, Paul, now you have an excuse to buy a milling machine.  Still a good bit of work to resize 200 reed plates, but you can surely make a suitable jaw for your vise to make it trivial monkeywork, and aluminum is soft enough you can likely take all the material in one pass of the end mill.  A few swipes on suitable sandpaper after to break the edge and make it safe to handle and you're done.

You make it sound easy... but the reality is that these accordions from yesteryear are just not worth the trouble. The existing reeds are not bad, and the accordion will not gain enough in value by putting better reeds in to make it worth the trouble...

 

[ColoRodney]

But that’s the opposite of what I want to do. It would be to take the handmade reeds from an otherwise failing old accordion, and move them into a new accordion with an indifferent set of reeds but excellent keyboard, bellows, and body.

 

[debra]

But that’s the opposite of what I want to do. It would be to take the handmade reeds from an otherwise failing old accordion, and move them into a new accordion with an indifferent set of reeds but excellent keyboard, bellows, and body.

That "operation" makes a lot of sense. Mechanically new accordions are better than accordions from 60 years ago, but some of the old reeds are clearly better than even fairly good new reeds.
Sadly reed plates for the same note come in different sizes, so when you want to swap old reeds into a newer accordion there is a risk that the reed plates won't fit.

 

[ColoRodney]

That's pretty much what I feared.

I also thought "maybe I could just replace the bassoon reeds that are slow-speaking in my newer accordion with old bassoon reeds that behave better, and that would be a smaller job... but then remembered that my newer accordion is A 440 and the old one is closer to A 442. I should spend more time playing the accordion and less time overthinking it.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Yes, for sure people swap reeds in the way the OP is asking about. I know for a fact this happens in the folk/trad world, especially the Irish players. Sometimes people acquire a vintage box that is beloved in the tradition both for its form factor and its storied history. But some of the reeds in those beloved old cult boxes aren't the greatest, or aren't in the greatest shape. Sometimes it's also because a cool vintage box has two bisonoric rows that were tuned to keys other than those used in Irish trad. And people have the reeds swapped out.

There are Irish players who upgrade the reeds in old small Hohners. Sometimes they even do this with the supposedly iconic vintage Italian Paolo Soprani button boxes--the original reeds are dilapidated, or not terribly responsive, or whatever. Then they have an oh-so-kewl storied PS, but it's got new hand reeds in there. People also do it with new boxes with good construction, good mechanism, and good components, but reeds that are kind of meh in terms of response speed or whatever.

But they're probably doing this with same-size blocks, etc., as noted upthread. I myself have a tale about this--a decade or so ago I purchased a small Borsini CBA new. It was a one-voice. With 30 or slightly more than 30 treble notes and two octaves of freebass. And I got it into my head that I'd like to have the treble side changed to a two-voice MM. Certainly looking at the box from the exterior it's the same size as any number of small MM CBAs. So I asked my tech, and they said, "Sure, we can do that. We have file cabinets full of extra old reeds including Bugari or Bugari-quality hand reeds that we will outfit into the box."

But as it turned out, their breezy confidence was misplaced. Because there was something about the way the interior was configured that it was super-hard to fit two sets of those reeds in there. And the thing sat there "in progress" for like three years. (They are constantly busy with stuff from people all over the world who pass through to perform and also ship work there.) And . . . because we're friendly, I was squeamish about pushing on a finish date. So the thing sat there for like three years. I should take a photo of what they did inside to gerry-rig it all in.

The reeds have a beautiful, velvety tone and buttery response. But the tuning has never been 100% on point. I don't know if there's something about older reeds that would give them problems staying in tune, or they didn't do enough passes to be sure the tuning was set, or what. I do love the sound and response. But it needs to go in for a tuning. Several notes are "not quite" on point, and one is outrageously off. And the tremolo isn't uniform from note to note, including reeds for the same note on the push versus the pull. It plays like a dream, but I have only used it for practice at home, because the tuning needs going-over.

 

[kimric]

I am currently converting a vintage 1940's 120 bass LM instrument to MM. It needed to be valved and waxed regardless but it is worth more as a MM since that configuration in the US in a 41 key instrument is pretty rare. I will often use old Wurlitzer M reeds to replace the L since they are the older square cut reeds and the tone is different. Bringing in the second reed is a huge tone change.

 

[OuijaBoard]

I've thought of having a cool older 30/50 Titano Titan switched out from LM to MM. It's a dream size. But the LM is great for klezmer, Balkan, tango, so I haven't pulled the trigger. I wish there were more Titans around in that configuration.