Is The FR-8X Signal From the L/Mono & R/Mono Jacks The Same in Mono Mode?

[John M]

My FR-8X is having a problem (intermittent On/Off sound) with the L/Mono connection when using an external speaker. I wish the jacks were a tighter fit. The plug comes out very easily. I tried the R/Mono jack and it seems O.K. Is the signal output the same from either the L or R jack? The “L” jack is marked Treble and the “R” jack is marked Bass. My external speaker is mono not stereo.

Since the Jacks are stereo, what if I changed to a stereo (TRS) plug and wire it for mono? My thinking is that there is another "prong" on the stereo plug and it will hold the plug in tighter and maybe make a better connection than I am getting now.

John M.

 

[oldbayan]

My understanding (and as explained in the manual) is that both jacks are MONO, and when the circuit detects just one output connection, then both L and R signals are mixed. Otherwise each jack sends a different MONO signal. The switching is likely happening electronically, but I never checked inside the box. If you only use a MONO connection then why not simply use the one that works? The Headphones jack is TRS.

 

[John M]

My understanding (and as explained in the manual) is that both jacks are MONO, and when the circuit detects just one output connection, then both L and R signals are mixed. Otherwise each jack sends a different MONO signal. The switching is likely happening electronically, but I never checked inside the box. If you only use a MONO connection then why not simply use the one that works? The Headphones jack is TRS.

That clears it up for me. It's good to know the signals are identical if I use one MONO plug in either of the L or R jacks. I will use the the good "R" jack. Thanks.

John M.

 

[jozz]

That clears it up for me. It's good to know the signals are identical if I use one MONO plug in either of the L or R jacks. I will use the the good "R" jack. Thanks.

John M.

it's my understanding the signals are different

at least that's how it works on the FR1x

the R gives you a bass-heavy mono mix, and the L more treble; but you can compensate the difference in the parameters first to get your ideal mix

imho a design error from Roland: being unable to get a true L or R mono signal

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

If using both jacks then that is true. Some of the opposite signal is ‘leaked’ into each jack. But with only one cable it is true mono.

 

[JerryPH]

When you use only one of the outputs, *either* the left or the right it is a mixed MONO signal of left and right signals that is sent out that wire. When you use both wires you get a Roland'ds interpretation of what they feel their setero setup should be, meaning in the default settings about 25-35% of one side is sent to the other, so it's a "mostly" stereo signal, but you do NOT get a 100% complete L/R separation.

This is a known "issue" and if you want complete separation everywhere, first you need the latest firmware and you need to program that sound balance via in-accordion settings or via Java editor in all the registers of EACH set. That part was very poorly thought out by Roland.

 

[Ventura]

yes well

some of us would say it is not an issue nor poorly thought out as far as
Roland is concerned... it is merely another example of their arrogance
and "heads in the sky" attitude

this was part and parcel of their "Supernatural" movement and philosophy

and was partly why they fired me, as i bitterly fought for this to be changed
in the (at that time) rumoured 7x and other future V Accordions

their fetish with supernatural is why there is Noise programmed
(and actually laid over the reed voices in a separate audio track)
by that i mean the key clacks and wheezing, off tune low L reeds
on the Bugari modeled reedset and other such nonsense

pointing out to them that the objective of the great Builders was to
IMPROVE and eliminate the physical limitations of machine and material
as much as human ingenuity could achieve was an absolutely hopeless endeavor

it is also why MY FR7 sounded obviously better than any stock Roland

because i hacked the programming until i eliminated all that noise crap

another issue they hated me bugging them about was why they
never equalized the audio outputs to match the internal speakers actual response parameters...

a "real" accordion sounds the way it sounds whether totally acoustic or
played through a Microphone (assuming a quality Audio system of course)

it doesn't magically have higher frequencies suddenly appear and affect
new variations and interplay of the notes or change it's frequency curve

why wasn't THAT important enough to keep super"Natural" and
true to life ? could have been programmed in in minutes literally
once the actual FR7 was "modeled" (amp and output modeling was a specialty
of Roland even way before the Accordion project)

another famous example of this arrogance is their insistence that
Organs are never at zero volume... there is always some bleed
from the volume pedal control (they claim)

it is impossible to completely silence the Ronald Drawbar Organ systems
and modules because of this... they could not fathom that an Organ Module
might be used in an ensemble of Synths and as such NEED to be completely
quiet at times

supernatural...

 

[Simon Max]

Ventura, that is very enlightening.

 

[John M]

To All,

I really appreciate the great input that you have provided. Other than this forum, I don't know where I could get all this valuable information from such knowledgeable people.

John M.

 

[JerryPH]

and was partly why they fired me, as i bitterly fought for this to be changed
in the (at that time) rumoured 7x and other future V Accordions

They fired pretty much ANYONE that had an opinion and voiced it louder than a whisper. Performers like yourself, Pesaturo and others who didn't want to follow the Roland V-accordion path as Roland layed it out were effectively silenced in the quickest way they knew how, they were fired. People like Alicia Baker who knew how to stay quiet, are there even today... but just barely.

their fetish with supernatural is why there is Noise programmed
(and actually laid over the reed voices in a separate audio track)
by that i mean the key clacks and wheezing, off tune low L reeds
on the Bugari modeled reedset and other such nonsense

Well... *someone* must have understood you because they gave all 8X users the ability to control this to taste:







... and others too (ie: I left out the valve noise parameters which also can be adjusted +,- 40 or off).

another issue they hated me bugging them about was why they
never equalized the audio outputs to match the internal speakers actual response parameters...

I think that there is something to show there too, but the answer to me is... let there be a way to equalize the internals and externals at the same time, but no need to separate this as any 1/2-assed mixer has eq's and we can equalize the accordion internal speakers how we want internally, and let the mixer handle the external EQing. That way we have the best of both worlds, and in that sense there is an integrated answering in there in the form of at least a 4-band EQ:

another famous example of this arrogance is their insistence that
Organs are never at zero volume... there is always some bleed
from the volume pedal control (they claim)

it is impossible to completely silence the Ronald Drawbar Organ systems
and modules because of this...

OK I had to test this one out myself...

Setting it to anything between 1-8 it is audible. Setting it to 0 effectively silences the tone associated with that drawbar. Set all to 0, there is no sound, even at max volume. Now, that said, I am not sure if this was exactly what you meant. If this was in reference to a pedal and mixing it with, for example accordion, I could not test it on a Roland pedal as I don't have one... using a $40 pedal in a bluetooth system, volume goes from 0 to 127. At 0 (full pedal height), you cannot hear any organ, and it rises as you press down the pedal to a max of 127. If one has an iPad and something like a MIDI capture program, this is not only audible, but visible.

So, all that to say that I'm really sorry that you went through what you did with Roland, but at least a good chunk of the things you tried to help them with did come true, if in a later version.

 

[John M]

The amount of choices/settings is amazing! I don't know how anyone could create programs for the FR-8X without the PC Editor. Richard Noel did it before the Editor was even available.

John M.

 

[JIM D.]

I've been reading this thread for 6 days now and haven't chimed in as the members comments have addressed the problem
quite correctly. However there is a portion of the original post not answered here. It concerns the subject of a loose 1/4 plug
connection. I'll take this up in a new post " Loose 1/4" phone plug ??"

 

[Ventura]

i was referring to the Roland Organ Atalier line, and the VK-7 and VK-8
and my VK-8m drawbar module
(which was the centerpiece of the Virtual Cordovox project)
for which i literally had to send the audio output through
a nice Ernie Ball Volume Pedal on it's way to the Mixer

there is a wonderful zero noise volume chip circuit which
can be accessed from a jack on the back of the module,
but which cannot be brought to "Zero"

next: the EQ issue was complicated by the Orchestral Voices, as
external global EQ settings could of course compromise
the (necessary) high end from the Piano, Trumpet, Flute, etc

it really was frustrating as i tried to build GiG setups using
mostly Roland products ( my choice supported by my Rep )
and actually my gigs stimulated sales of the other Roland products quite nicely.
VK-8m
VP-550
Sonic Cell
and MicroCube amp (i used to demo the FR2 with a wireless)
but they hated that i refused to use Roland Keyboard Amps/PA
rather than my own personally crafted Speaker Cabinets and
Heads i had customized over the years prior to my Roland involvement
(with wireless setups and EZ access wiring and such)
and of course the Korg backing unit (i5m)

at the Coupe Mondial, my audio gear was hidden, my main Speaker
was pretty much disguised on the other side of my little staging spot
next to the door (and it pointed out into the hallway which was cool
and cause a lot of people to wander in with a quizzical look on their face)
and their Roland PA was just patched in from my system output and
volume turned up just barely enough to "fake" it in the room

gear needs to meet MY standards and i need to see the features and benefits
for real before i show it off or talk it up

plus i am normally a pain in the ass anyway

 

[jozz]

@Ventura
whenever I'm playing and recording both hands

i will from now think you as the brave frontline soldier regarding the 'bleed' problem

 

[JerryPH]

I've been reading this thread for 6 days now and haven't chimed in as the members comments have addressed the problem
quite correctly. However there is a portion of the original post not answered here. It concerns the subject of a loose 1/4 plug
connection. I'll take this up in a new post " Loose 1/4" phone plug ??"

Over the years, there has been a good amount of talk about it and various solutions and "evolved" problems that came out of those, from:
- reaching inside the factory 1/4" holes to bend the pins inside to hold better
- to de-soldering the plugs, replacing them with metal ones
- to destroying the jack board due to heat damage from replacing the jacks
- to moving the stress point off the jacks by using 90-degree jacks and routing the cable to the straps before dropping down to the ground
- to "finally" using a combo of 90-degree jacks, routing the cable up the straps to wireless transmitter

The final solution I believe is the best solution in terms of possible damage negation (in my opinion only, of course)... near zero, unless you are clumsy taking the jacks out, and zero chance of yanking the cables by stepping on them, as there is no hanging cables.

People have paid around $200 to get their plastic OEM plugs replaced with metal ones, but the cost of a small custom cable and $40 Getaria wireless stereo transmitter/receiver is less than half of that and doesn't involve touching the factory hardware, maximizing longevity and works really well for all but (what I would call) the most strenuous demanding situations, ie: professional use.

 

[JerryPH]

The amount of choices/settings is amazing! I don't know how anyone could create programs for the FR-8X without the PC Editor. Richard Noel did it before the Editor was even available.

John M.

It's possible, but you'd better have a LOT of time on your hands, as it's a long process in comparison... lol