Is this a genuine sale

[colinm]

Anyone know if this is a genuine sale or a scam, its on Jazz accordion forum, gentleman from Calumet city, Illinois, USA
Jcm

 

[Tom]

Hmmm, can’t say. Seems like a low price. Where is the jazz accordion forum?

 

[colinm]

Hmmm, can’t say. Seems like a low price. Where is the jazz accordion forum?

Facebook

 

[Tom]

Facebook

Thanks Colin! 5 hours away, sorry, can’t check it out for you. Driving in Chicago makes me (more) crazy anyway.

 

[murathan]

Facebook has a lot of scammers lately. Even for accordion sales. They might be total scammers or selling a stolen product.

 

[debra]

The best thing to be somewhat safe is to ask for something additional a scammer is unlikely to be able to (because the scammer doesn't have access to the accordion). You can ask for a closeup of the serial number, a video of the seller playing the accordion, a photo of the bass mechanism (or some other part not shown in the photos already provided...
There are many scammers in all social media. One has to remain vigilant all the time.

 

[colinm]

There was a video of someone playing the accordion.

 

[breezybellows]

There was a video of someone playing the accordion.

Colin, I can confirm that this is a scam. I contacted him and he sent me the video. The person in the video was my friend Dan. Dan told me that he sold the accordion to someone in Brazil last year. This seller claimed that they have owned the accordion for 8 years.

 

[breezybellows]

The best thing to be somewhat safe is to ask for something additional a scammer is unlikely to be able to (because the scammer doesn't have access to the accordion). You can ask for a closeup of the serial number, a video of the seller playing the accordion, a photo of the bass mechanism (or some other part not shown in the photos already provided...
There are many scammers in all social media. One has to remain vigilant all the time.

I did ask him to take a picture with the accordion with today's date written in a paper. Then they just vanished.

 

[colinm]

Breezy, Thanks for that very positive identification, you have confirmed my worse thoughts, I am lucky that he only took £300, which is similar to most of my losses on accordion deals and he was trying to get another £300 from me, which set alarm bells ringing.
Strangely my bank can take no action despite me having his real name and bank details.

 

[dak]

Strangely my bank can take no action despite me having his real name and bank details.

That isn't strange at all. Bank transfers are final for a reason. The party that can take actions (including freezing assets and requesting reverse transfers based on court orders) is law enforcement, and obviously you should report the "seller" to law enforcement. When reasonably sure of the recipient's identity, you can also sue them for paying you back.

However, you have to be aware that the most likely fraudster is not the one whose banking details you used: that one much more likely than not is a "money mule" who sheepishly agreed to "handle bank transfers" for a "company" for a percentage of the transfers, essentially providing their personal banking details and "working" by transfering to a non-identifiable non-refundable target. When the mule ultimately blows up, they will not have monetary reserves for paying back more than a few of the swindled people.

What they are doing is typically (for lack of intent) not criminal but a misdemeanor (namely a violation of money laundering regulations) but they will be liable for paying back money they illicitly transferred, and will often not be able to field that debt.

 

[breezybellows]

Breezy, Thanks for that very positive identification, you have confirmed my worse thoughts, I am lucky that he only took £300, which is similar to most of my losses on accordion deals and he was trying to get another £300 from me, which set alarm bells ringing.
Strangely my bank can take no action despite me having his real name and bank details.

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[breezybellows]

I am lucky that he only took £300, which is similar to most of my losses on accordion deals and he was trying to get another £300 from me, which set alarm bells ringing.

If it makes you feel any better, I've lost significantly more in an accordion transaction. This was not a bogus sale. It was a dishonest seller that sold a sticky Morino to me for $7k.

 

[colinm]

If it makes you feel any better, I've lost significantly more in an accordion transaction. This was not a bogus sale. It was a dishonest seller that sold a sticky Morino to me for $7k.

Joseph,Yes, Thankyou , maybe we should start a survey ?

 

[debra]

If it makes you feel any better, I've lost significantly more in an accordion transaction. This was not a bogus sale. It was a dishonest seller that sold a sticky Morino to me for $7k.

Well, $7k for a used Morino was already a stretch, and what it needed was just to have the pallet felt+leather replaced and maybe also a good clean and that should not have been a very expensive repair when done by an honest repairer.
The reality of used accordion sales is that sellers always exaggerate how "good", "as good as new" or "in pristine condition" the instruments are they are selling.

 

[dak]

The reality of used accordion sales is that sellers always exaggerate how "good", "as good as new" or "in pristine condition" the instruments are they are selling.

I've sold a few amps in "better than new" state: lower noise, lower distortion, significantly lower hum (admittedly I had the schematics available and could work out weak points and actual blunders), silent on/off action and so on. With some Chinese products, "better than new" should actually be possible with proper setup and retune.

 

[breezybellows]

Well, $7k for a used Morino was already a stretch, and what it needed was just to have the pallet felt+leather replaced and maybe also a good clean and that should not have been a very expensive repair when done by an honest repairer.
The reality of used accordion sales is that sellers always exaggerate how "good", "as good as new" or "in pristine condition" the instruments are they are selling.

That was the first expensive instrument I purchased. There weren't a lot of options near me for repair. The repair person was the one that sold me the accordion. So that was a good (and expensive) lesson.

 

[Riccardo]

Find it really sad to read about these scammers and the victims.... It seems in my day (40s- 60's), there were unsaid or common sense agreements among accordionists to tell the truth about instruments, music, competitions, awards, gigs, concerts, trade shows, opportunities,etc.
At least in my experience, your word was "honour" and honoured!!
But those were the days before the more "modern, new, advanced and improved" means of communication in the world...
Glad I'm not in the business today.

 

[John Doe]

It seems in my day (40s- 60's), there were unsaid or common sense agreements

It seems likely that just down from the porticullis there were sketchy lute vendors in abundance back in the 14th century- and those used chariot salesmen in the shadows of the forum; "seasoned oak wheels well broken in for maximum smoothness, the delicately patterned fissures in the rims afford cushioning comfort for those journeys over the Appian way paving stones," and "hand trimmed" pegwork for the body...

I see none of the unfortunate chicanery involved in human interaction as anything new- or anything worsening these days quite frankly.

"Caveat Emptor" is a phrase which echoes across the centuries as a rule to live with. As Mr Barnum put it in the early twentieth century; "Never give a sucker an even break". It's not as though non-existant parcels of land weren't sold to hapless investors in previous centures... The internet just affords a wider audience to attempt to defraud.

Ir also allows an offsetting awareness of the schemes employed. The two sort of offset.

And none of the above doesn't mean that I am not really saddened to hear of the multi thousand dollar klebe-Morino purchase nor not heartened that the jerk with the Jazz accordion forum was foiled. I'm just sorry the swine is free to try again- with due apologies to swine everywhere.

 

[breezybellows]

It seems likely that just down from the porticullis there were sketchy lute vendors in abundance back in the 14th century- and those used chariot salesmen in the shadows of the forum; "seasoned oak wheels well broken in for maximum smoothness" and "hand trimmed" pegwork for the body...

I see none of the unfortunate chicanery involved in human interaction as anything new- or anything worsening these days quite frankly.

"Caveat Emptor" is a phrase which echoes across the centuries as a rule to live with. As Mr Barmum put it in the early twentieth entury; "Never give a sucker an even break". The internet just affords a wider audience to attempt to defraud.

And none of the above doesn't mean that I am not really saddened to hear of the multi thousand dollar klebe-Morino purchase nor heartened that the jerk with the Jazz accordion forum was foiled. I'm just sorry the swine is free to try again- with due apologies to swine everywhere.

It's because of the modern technologies we get to discuss about these scams. Technology doesn't make people want to do things. It enabled them to do whatever they want to do in a more effective way