Jimmy Shand DVD's

[george garside]

I have posted info on 2 Jimmy Shand DVD's on the I like that section of the forum as I think they may be of interest to ome of those who don't brows the folk music threads.

george

 

[Anyanka]

Right... I have to confess (something I never dared do on the Other forum) that I just don't get the whole Shand thing. I've tried. I've listened to quite a few of his recordings. I'm sure he was technically amazing, but I don't enjoy that style of playing; it just doesn't inspire me, nor make me want more.

 

[Matt Butcher]

Personally, I love his playing: subtle, thoughtful, often emotional (in my opinion), beautiful touch and phrasing, but always with a real dance flavour. That's what I feel about it. Yes, you know roughly what you're going to get if you go out and buy a Jimmy Shand album, but I don't mind that at all, you could say the same for a lot of the best music. I know you can never get agreement on peoples' tastes but those are the qualities I think I find in Mr Shand's music. I like the slow numbers the best. But it would be boring if we all liked the same thing, I know.

 

[Robbie]

Not strictly Jimmy Shand as such, but I do like Bobby Macleod.

The Highland Barn dance track from his Highland Treasure CD is something else.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005GMSOH8/ref=dm_dp_trk20

More so the second tune, Major D.Manson of Clachantrusal, its worth the price of 69p for the Jazz Twinkle, roll back the carpet and practice it for the next ceildh dance.

Cheers

Bob

 

[george garside]

Right... I have to confess (something I never dared do on the Other forum) that I just don't get the whole Shand thing. I've tried. I've listened to quite a few of his recordings. I'm sure he was technically amazing, but I don't enjoy that style of playing; it just doesn't inspire me, nor make me want more.

He also played and recorded quite a bit of continental music. There are also a number very poor quality CD's of his music which don't do it any justice whatsoever. The best are the ones issued by muchty music (the Shand family trademark) which are taken from the original masters and only lightly digitally done. There is aslo the EMI CD Jimmy Shand king of the melodeon men' which is top quality and includes introductory comments by John Kirkpatrick.

george

 

[nathen]

I totally agree with you Mat. In the fifties I was a member of a country dance team and we used to dance to many different bands. Consequently, we would notice the subtle differences between them and how it felt dancing to them. Jimmy's music was always the most satisfying experience.

I suppose when you move your body to a set of music, you really do become one with it. It's not a coincidence that he was so popular and moved people fo the extent of winning awards and being knighted.

Perhaps these days with music blaring at you from all sides, his music is too subtle for these times. There are certain types of music that I just don't 'get'. However, I just take it as a sign that I need to listen more carefully if I have to be in that musical expression.

Right now I'm practising William Hannah's 'The Agnes Waltz' as played by Jimmy Shand. A lovely piece for practicing strict tempo. I have a pdf of this if anyone wants it. It's hard to find a copy.

Nathen

 

[JIM D.]

Nathen your absolutely correct on your comments. I started using my musical talents for profit in my teens and played what was popular and profitable at the time. As time went by I was fortunate to work with musicians that played music both ethnic ,historical and popular. During my last half century of performing I have had the pleasure of playing with musicians that entertained with and played correctly music of all types of venues. There are some of us that dismiss certain music forms because the don't understand the meaning the music it translates to the listener. Some of the songs performed may not be to your liking but to some they translate to Family history, Memories, and National pride. And of course there are those of us who will dismiss certain music just because of personal taste and will fail to comprehend the meaning of the music and the talent used to perform it properly. --- I remember a question posed to me years ago and it was "What's the difference between a Genius and a Moron" the answer is simply no difference, you can't teach either of them anything!! Musically yours; JIM D.

 

[Anyanka]

Too subtle has never been a problem for me... au contraire. The Shand tracks I listened to were everything but subtle, and all sounded the same as each other. Could one of you recommend an album (preferably one available on Grooveshark or Spotify) that'll give me a better idea of what the man's about?

 

[george garside]

As I have said there are some very poor quality CD's around with the baby chucked out with the bathwater by over re mastering and removing many of the subtleties. It should aalso be remembered that what you hear is what was played as it was before 'sound engineers' could digitally make shit sound like milk chocolate!

As well as superb rhythm he used a lot of very subtle gracenotes and was the master of playing 'long and short notes' I have a cd of a programme on BBC radio Scotland in 2008 ( his 100th anniversary) which consisted mainly of chats with people who knew him/worked with him etc. One of those interviewed was the very well known piano box player Jack Emblow who was apparently roped in to back Jimmy on second box for 2 of recordings in London. As one would expect Jack Emblow was a brilliant reader and extremely competent accordionist in his own right. The interviewer asked if he had learned anything from Jimmy. Jack Emblow replied ' he tought me the difference between long and short notes''

There is aa useful tunebook '' 44 original compoitions by Sir Jimmy Shand'' still in print I think. One of my favourites is 'welcome Christmas morning' a 3/4 in A. there is a set of dots for it in G on youtube but it is much simplified on both treble and bass so loses quite a bit compared to the original.

It crops up on various CD's the best sound being on the CD Sir Jimmy Shand and his music'' (20 of his compositions played by him) MMCD0302.currently available.

george

 

[Matt Butcher]

I think we may be dealing with a genuine difference in taste here (I enjoy a lot of music that does indeed all sound the same*). There is an album I like by Jimmy Shand called "Fifty Years On": it is quite... restrained... but lovely. An old album called "Parlophone Sessions Vol. 1" has some nice dance music (and possibly a couple of weaker tracks). There is a track on "The Beltona Recordings Vol. 2" called "The Listening Waltz", it's just a simple waltz but to my ears the feel is magic. Others will know more than me. From my point of view there's a lot in the music below the surface: just the attention he pays to shaping every note sounds wonderful to me. You are more of a folk person than me by far Anyanka, and there's no reason why you should care about my taste in music, but maybe that gets across some of what I like about it.

*Off topic, if you would like a free reed challenge for some traditional music that really does all sound the same try the album "No. 1s of Calabrian Tarantella" by Carmelo Pansera and Ninello Verducci, now that is hardcore. I love that as well.

 

[Anyanka]

Thanks for the recommendations - I'll have a listen next week (off to Leek this afternoon to play with the No.1 Ladies).

And thank you, Matt, for the detailed explanation of what you like - I'll listen for those details

 

[george garside]

Anyanka hope the weathers better in Leek than it is in unsunny Anglesey
george

 

[jarvo]

Read ALL of this please before going off 1/2 cocked ladies and gents........

Oh dear,the cracks are showing already....I will throw my penn'orth in with Anyanka and I will state that I do not like the music of Jimmy Shand.......I find it samey, irritating after a while and it is just not my cup of tea.

Anyanka and I and any others who feel that way are entitled to that opinion and are entitled to express that opinion, surely that is what a forum is all about guys and gals .

Shand was no doubt a greatly gifted and dextrous craftsman of the instrument ,technically and musically brilliant....... but for me his music is more relevant to those of you who it seems are of an older (and possibly more contemplative) generation .......(no crack or disrespect, just the facts).

And I know that there will be cries of " Yes ,but you can learn from listening to him ".....to which I reply "No I can't" because I do not want to play in that manner....will probably never set foot in a ceilidh or place where the type of dancing he performs for is taking place....and it does not make me any less of a person than those who like it ......It is so clear from this new forum that there are wide ranging tastes in music out there, not all will suit everybody and it is right that we should be able to say so without subtle replies coming back sniping at the person who said it........

So to be clear ,expressing a view that we do not like JS' s music is not an attack on him, nor on those of you who do listen and enjoy nor of his undoubted prowess...........it is just a statement of taste(or arguably lack thereof)......and there it is............

Btw I am going to a Folk Club meeting in Brampton on Tuesday next.....to dip a toe in the waters of Folk.......might take me ukulele though........or nothing at all ...unless anyone has a suggestion for a simple Accordion tune .....are we all still buddies ?

 

[Matt Butcher]

No offence taken in any way, just trying to put across what I do like about this music, and in no way criticising anyone who feels different. I hope I didn't give the impression that I was criticising anyone. I didn't feel under attack. I am not a folk dance type person at all, the only dancing I would ever to is to music with big fat bass lines and now I'm getting on a bit (aged 41) that would only be if I was drunk...

The reason why I thought it was worth talking about why I do like this music is this:

- I don't care whether JS had good technique, it's the feel that counts as far as I am concerned;
- I think he gets the feel to a great extent by his touch on the instrument, and his timing, and his subtle little touches on the bellows;
- These are things that are particularly good about the accordion, you can use all these things for expression really easily on the accordion in any style of music.

Go on, take the accordion to the folk club... More soon, Matt.

 

[jarvo]

Matt


You are right about everything you say about Jimmy Shand,expressive ,feeling ,etc................and there are nuances that can be used you are right and bang on the mark, they can be used in any other style ,genre or idiom.......I just cannot get past the overall package of the sound and style of the band....well not more than a couple of tunes,sorry that's just me ...............having said that who knows I may grow into it....I have grown out of AC/DC .....well ,a bit.......although I may try "Whole Lotta Rosie" on the accordion.............not at the folk club though :lol:

 

[Anyanka]

Jarvo, I feel that the whole discussion has been very amicable! Just everyone expressing their opinion. It has made me want to go and have another listen, just in case I've missed something (I used to dislike Beethoven until I got past the symphonies. That was only two weeks ago.)

Matt in particular is making me want to give Shand another chance, because of the emphasis on getting the feeling of a tune. That is what matters to me, too; a certain amount of technique is necessary in order to play expressively, but no amount of technique can cover up a lack of expression.

 

[Anyanka]

Right now Im practising William Hannahs The Agnes Waltz as played by Jimmy Shand. A lovely piece for practicing strict tempo. I have a pdf of this if anyone wants it. Its hard to find a copy.

Nathen

Would that be suitable for a future Tune of the Month? How difficult is it?

 

[george garside]

There are two you tube vids of Jimmy Shand playing the AGnes Waltz. Both aare lifted directly from old 78 records so the reproduction is of a poor standard . I may have the dots somewhere and will try and find them

george

 

[donn]

It is so clear from this new forum that there are wide ranging tastes in music out there, not all will suit everybody and it is right that we should be able to say so without subtle replies coming back sniping at the person who said it.

ive thought about this, ironically because Ive found that some of Anyankas favorite stuff rather grates on me! My conclusion is that as a general rule, I would do better not to post opinions like that unless I think I have something really clever to say about it. I mean, if you post a link to something you like, the reason we chime in with appreciative comments is not really because anyone needed to know what we think, is it?

The difference here is that Shand has been held up as something of a musical icon, so I can imagine it would be refreshing for those who dont get the attraction to find out that they have company. (I personally dont really notice anything either way - no problem with the examples I listened to, but they were somewhat dominated by fiddle, piano etc.)

 

[george garside]

To me the strength of a wide based forum such as this is that there is room for sharing our particular enthusiasms and for polite and reasoned debate such as Anyanka and some others have entered into.

I cannot understand the need to air what are just personal dislikes just for the sake of it without a useful contribution being made to debating the topic.

Whilst I appreciate most things accordion there are areas/genres that I have absolutely no interest in or even dislike. It would seem totally pointless to join in any discussions on genres I don't like or am just not keen on as my negative views would be of absolutely no interest to anybody!

george