Jimmy Shand DVD's

[Anyanka]

I agree: no point in just posting "dislike" for the sake of it. Although I didn't make it at all clear in my original response, I made the comment this time because Jimmy Shand is so very big in the accordion world that I feel odd for not "getting" it. It's like not getting Rembrandt when you're an artist - you know that so many clever people can't all be wrong.... (I don't get Rembrandt. I'm an artist).

 

[jarvo]

George

The point that I was politely making is that it is possible to admire a persons talent and skills and not necessarily like, enjoy ,bask in the fruits of their labour but appreciate with a nod to the ability that they exhibit in doing so ......that is constructive ......which is polite debate, surely....?

Further to say that you do not understand why people air their dislikes for the sake of it is the mirror of those who air their likes...........if you do not like something but then qualify why and state that the exponent is not being dismissed is debating the point. Should you read some of the posts in the "I like that" thread there are similar views expressed about players, tunes and techniques....

I embrace and sample a huge and diverse range of music, some elements of which I like and some I don't ........I like ice - cream ,but not all the flavours .........but I am going to leave it at that. I do not want an argument, five minute or the full half hour !!

 

[jarvo]

Further to my last and as the way of an Olive branch I found this today.....I was actually looking for something else....but you can buy and download individual tracks to your PC whatever....there are 4 albums to choose from as well.....................................


http://www.last.fm/music/Jimmy+Shand/_/Royal+Scots+Polka/+albums {}

 

[george garside]

Thanks Jarvo. The DVDs shown are mostly lifted from old 78s and as a result have lost some of the Shand magic Having said that they are ok to listen to in the car or wherever so as to programme a tune or two into the brain!..

The only ones I fully recommend are those fully sorted by the Shand Family and taken from the original masters. I think there are 5 of them as well as the DVD Miner to Maestro and a book of 40 of his compositions. http://www.jimmyshand.com

There is a short clip of the Auchtermuchty Gala March as the website opens to give aan idea of the sound quality etc. The CDs are a reasonable £10 each

george

 

[george garside]

see under thread jigs and reels for info on the DVD Dancing with the Shands
george

 

[Soulsaver]

Well someone said that 'that Scottish musette' if not in your culture, is likely to grate.
And I find the same with my favourite non accordion music - unless you've acquired the taste you are going to detest most of it.
I'm in the not-for-me group, albeit I know he's a genius and I wish I could play even a shadow as well - but if i could, I'd use that skill for a different genre.
I suspect if you (want to)make the time and listen and let it sink in it will grow.

You can find analogies in other walks - food for example - when I was young hardly anybody liked chillie & lime pickle with their poppadoms... but they do now! It has to be allowed to grow on you.
Now Bombay Duck.... euchh!

 

[DaveGD]

Nathan, would appreciate a copy of Agnes Waltz as played by Sir JS. I am a huge fan.

Thanks
Dave

 

[george garside]

Dave - there are 2 youtube vids of sir Jimmy playing the Agnes Waltz. google youtube agnes waltz jimmy shand. Both are from the same 78 record, the first one is so called digitally enhanced but not brilliantly, the other is you tubed direct from an old 78 and it even says what type of needle etc is used!.

The best Shand CD's are the ones the Shand family have had very carefully digitaly enhanced from the original masters which they own so as not to lose anything --

george

 

[Soulsaver]

I was just thinking today that Sir J S featured virtually as a daily post in th'old forum and that I hadn't seen one for a while here... and lo..

 

[jarvo]

...And I realised what my apparent antipathy to Sir Jimmy's music is....superb a craftsman of his art as he undoubtedly is....he played button box...so to a dyed in the wool ivory tinkler his right hand technique has no real immediate resonance technique wise..so again not dissing him.....it's just not compatible.......now maybe his bellows techniques and bass buttonage has some value to a keyboarder, but not at the moment because they are too advanced......good stuff to aspire to though, :tup:

 

[george garside]

To which I would say yes and no!

Yes there is a great deal of similarity in the way the treble of all accordions is played ( or should be played!) . The buttons or keys are simply on off switches and require exactly the same technique to play well.This applies to piano, continental , uniform keyboard and british chromatic.

No - the layout of the keys or buttons is physically different to each other and so the appropriate manual dexterity for the chosen sytem needs to be practised and finely honed. This is vital on all boxes ( and something similar applies to all instruments) so that the player can reach the next note (key/button), swiftly and with aplomb whether it is next door to the previous one or at the other end of the keyboard etc. This is not a 'musical' skill its a 'manual'' skill . Box players aalso need to develop very fine control of the bellows as they are to the box player what the bow is to a fidler ( or violinist)

Obviously Jimmy Shand and indeed others at the top of the pile playing in different genres have that manual skill in extremely highly developed form. But that is only the starting point for what makes their renditions special. From that point on it is raw talent that provides the extra something that puts an individual at the top of the pile. Subleties like knowing just where to lengthen or shorten a note, when to go slightly more staccato or legato, how to get the appropriate balance between rhythm and harmony on the bass for a particular tune and how to bring in , sometimes very subtle rhythm using the bellows. etc etc etc

The way a tune sounds is much more related to the highly developed musical skills than to the particular type of box.

The Shand morino is a top class box that responds to the lightest touch and to piano box players it can appear to be a 'diabolical contraption' which it is not! It does have the feature of playing different notes on each button but getting the hang of playing tunes aand scales is the same as on any instrument,i.e. hard work! . It provides the advantage of far less linear travel than on a piano box and the amount of fingering is less as some note changes are made by reversing the bellows instead of changing to another button.


george

 

[KLR]

Interesting that Sir Jimmy himself wasnt satisfied with Hohners product:

Jimmy goes on to outline the development of the Hohner Morino accordion which he and Charles Forbes helped to design before the war, in 1938, in conjunction with Hohner of Germany. The finished product was a 40 treble – 105 bass, Hohner Morino Special, and the first was delivered in June, 1939, to Jimmy, which he used for many years. Jimmy says “after the war I was asked if I wanted a new accordion, and I thought if I ordered four, I would be sure to get one, but to my surprise when the railway lorry arrived at my door in Sutherland Street, Dundee, with the packing case, it consisted of four new Shand Morino models.”
The specification of this instrument was 46 Treble buttons – 117 bass, four sets of treble reeds – five sets of bass reeds. Five treble and two bass registers. They weren’t very good but they matured with the years” says Jimmy. “There was no kick or anything because it was new wood. Morino stormed out of the room when I told him my complaints. I was a thorn in Hohner’s flesh for a long time with my opinions, but they never paid attention. At least I was honest about it”.

April 1982 - Box and Fiddle Archive

 

[jarvo]

To which I would say yes and no!

Yes there is a great deal of similarity in the way the treble of all accordions is played ( or should be played!) . The buttons or keys are simply on off switches and require exactly the same technique to play well.This applies to piano, continental , uniform keyboard and british chromatic.

No - the layout of the keys or buttons is physically different to each other and so the appropriate manual dexterity for the chosen sytem needs to be practised and finely honed. This is vital on all boxes ( and something similar applies to all instruments) so that the player can reach the next note (key/button), swiftly and with aplomb whether it is next door to the previous one or at the other end of the keyboard etc. This is not a 'musical' skill its a 'manual'' skill . Box players aalso need to develop very fine control of the bellows as they are to the box player what the bow is to a fidler ( or violinist)

Obviously Jimmy Shand and indeed others at the top of the pile playing in different genres have that manual skill in extremely highly developed form. But that is only the starting point for what makes their renditions special. From that point on it is raw talent that provides the extra something that puts an individual at the top of the pile. Subleties like knowing just where to lengthen or shorten a note, when to go slightly more staccato or legato, how to get the appropriate balance between rhythm and harmony on the bass for a particular tune and how to bring in , sometimes very subtle rhythm using the bellows. etc etc etc

The way a tune sounds is much more related to the highly developed musical skills than to the particular type of box.

The Shand morino is a top class box that responds to the lightest touch and to piano box players it can appear to be a 'diabolical contraption' which it is not! It does have the feature of playing different notes on each button but getting the hang of playing tunes aand scales is the same as on any instrument,i.e. hard work! . It provides the advantage of far less linear travel than on a piano box and the amount of fingering is less as some note changes are made by reversing the bellows instead of changing to another button.


george

The last line of the last paragraph proves my point .....I'm not falling out with you about this...but the physicalities and playabilities of the treble board on the button box has no relevance to a piano keyboard player ...much like banjo has little relevance to a guitarist and I can play both...not well I admit...but I know the basics.

And if the bellows direction has an affect on the note or tonic of a single button even less relevance because ...unless you know something I do not.... a C note is a C note on a piano box whichever way you push or pull.....I'm happy to be corrected of course.

Plus Sir Jimmy Shand plays a particular style of music...very well, masterfully in fact...but I don't hear much Jazz, Blues or Rock etc ...not main stream popular styles on this forum I accept, but do you get my poit........poui...point ...bl***Y keyboard :lol: ? That's all I am saying. No disrespect intended. :ch

Jarvo

 

[george garside]

Jarvo, far from being at cross purposes I think we are in broad agreement in acknowledging that playing 'good music' (whatever that means) requires the ability to skilfully operating a 'machine' be it one or other type of box or one or other type of stringy thing and equally importantly requires the (transferable between instruments) knack of 'musical' ability to make whatever we play go way beyond playing the right notes in the right order!

george