La Foule: Pancordion + Special Bombate reeds

[Granitz]

Greetings! I thought Id share this project in progress. I found this 1960s Pancordion Baton after a several year hunt and am thoroughly enjoying working on it and playing it. Also, I made two new reed blocks for it and installed Special Bombate reeds I stole off eBay. Its not finished yet, but a real treat to play {}

This is a restaurant I play at every Friday night in Atlanta, so there is some background noise. Nonetheless, a really fun gig. Hope you enjoy.

 

[debra]

Nice gig. But of course I would really like to see the inside of that accordion, with the bombate reeds.
Was the size of the bombate reeds such that you needed new reed blocks? I thought that bombate reeds differed from normal (a mano) reeds by rounded edges, not by size of the reeds and reed plates.
Also, that Pancordion Baton looks a lot like a Crucianelli Artist, which does not have cassotto whereas a Crucianelli Baton has cassotto. If you got the sound in the clip from a non-cassotto Baton it is really impressive. If it is a cassotto Baton it is less impressive.

 

[Granitz]

Hi Paul. Thanks for the reply. This Pan is a non-cassotto accordion, and its 100% identical to the one my father has (single bass switch)...very difficult to find.

It was originally set up as LMMH, but Im converting it to LMMM with close-tuning...much like Frank Yankovic and Joey Miskulins tuning. The Bombate reeds I found on eBay were absolutely the perfect size in all dimensions...they fit like a glove on the old blocks. The other sets of hand-made reeds in my arsenal that I was considering to use were about 2mm longer than the original reed plates and would possibly result in clearance issues.

However, I wanted to preserve the original blocks in the event that I wanted to have piccolos again. So, I made the decision to make new blocks...and that project is only halfway. It also allows me to compare the tone quality of my blocks. The reeds in the photo above were tuned with sandpaper that matched the grain in the steel...I didnt want to leave file marks. There is still some wax cleaning and valve work to be done. Sure is a lot of fun :b

 

[JerryPH]

Very enjoyable!!

 

[debra]

Nice work on these reeds!
And for a non-cassotto instrument the sound is very nice!
Reed plates that are too long would indeed pose a problem and you could maybe gain 1mm with some wood work but 2mm may be pushing it. Some accordion manufacturers dont seem to care when the reed block is too large for the reed plates (so error in the other direction) and just use wax as filler. Here is some illustration of reed block and reed plate size mismatch:
http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/accordion-repair/slides/P7121596.jpg>

http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/accordion-repair/slides/P7181608.jpg>

And this is on a very expensive accordion...

 

[Zevy]

Absolutely gorgeous! Those Pancordions sure fool everyone. They don't NEED the cassotto!

 

[Morne]

http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/accordion-repair/slides/P7121596.jpg>

Off-topic, but how low do those reeds go? That seems to be a lot of added weight.

 

[debra]

To Morne: the reeds go down to E1, just like the lowest reeds on the melody bass side of a (full size) accordion. The corresponding bass reeds are much larger though, with less weight added, and they produce much stronger sound than these heavily weighed down treble reeds.

 

[Granitz]

Paul: Just curious...what does the M stamped into the reed plate indicate?

With reed weights that large the "sweet-spot" voicing adjustment must be a challenge to balance response and prevent choking.

 

[debra]

Paul: Just curious...what does the M stamped into the reed plate indicate?

With reed weights that large the sweet-spot voicing adjustment must be a challenge to balance response and prevent choking.

I have no idea what the M means. Other than this I have not noticed any markings on any reeds that would indicate the reed manufacturer. The M may be a hint but I dont understand the hint.

The sweet-spot voicing adjustment is actually not critical at all: because of the large weights the reed is slow enough to start moving that I have never noticed choking with these reeds at all. I keep the gap at just a bit more than the thickness of the reed without weight and that works well. (Reasonable response and no choking.)

The bombate reeds (of the original topic of this thread) have a bit of a curvature that reduces any possible air loss on the sides of the reeds (because they are a bit inside the hole instead of just at the edge) and that improves the response. But the voicing still remains important, otherwise even a bombate reed will be slow or will choke.

 

[JIM D.]

The 1960 Pan's (Crucianelli"s) were at a time when the original reeds were still made in house. The "M" on the reeds were most likely stamped to identify an in house reed maker.
I've worked on older Pan's and found different markings on the hand made reeds, but still an in house product.
Out side made reeds appeared in the 1970's but still superior.
Pan design was always unique as the whole box was designed as a tone chamber, hence the sound.

 

[debra]

The 1960 Pans (Crucianellis) were at a time when the original reeds were still made in house. The M on the reeds were most likely stamped to identify an in house reed maker.
Ive worked on older Pans and found different markings on the hand made reeds, but still an in house product.
Out side made reeds appeared in the 1970s but still superior.
Pan design was always unique as the whole box was designed as a tone chamber, hence the sound.

Sorry for causing confusion here. I showed reeds with the M that are not from the Pan but from a Pigini Sirius Bayan I was working on. Another accordion I am working on is a Crucianelli (still dont know exactly how much this is the same as Pancordion or not) Super Video from around 1970 and it has Bugari reeds. Crucianelli tried to hide this by placing the reeds that have Bugari (or Brev) stamped into them backwards, but of course while doing the rewaxing job the name was revealed. Those reeds are tipo a mano and definitely not bombate shaped.