Lowest Note on Basses

[Saulo_Henrique]

Hello Everyone.

What is the lowest note on your accordion?

I have two accordion.
1 - Lowest note is C2
2 - Lowest note is A1

In the first accordion, the basses sounds terrible when I play Bb or B.
The note B2+B3 sounds too high for me.

I readed that some accordions starts with F#1, G1, E1 (Horner) (lowest note)

What do you prefer as a lowest score?
C2, A1 or G1?

Thanks!

 

[debra]

Indeed the lowest note can be "all over the place".
Recent Italian accordions without convertor often start at A1.
German accordions can start at C2 for smaller models and sometimes F1 on larger models,
but there are also some starting at E1.
Convertor accordions often start at E1, but quint-convertors often start at C2 (and huge ones at C1).
Anything else can also occur. And some accordions are a "one off" compared to similar ones because
some manufacturer will alter their scheme upon request.

My preference is E1 as lowest note, but I can live with F1.

Another thing that varies a lot is how manufacturers try to hide the octave jump.
Older German accordions do nothing: the same note is lowest on all reed banks.
Italians (and newer German maybe also) tend to vary the octave jump at least once (on 4-voice bass)
and sometimes twice (on 5-voice bass).

Note in all of the above that some supposedly German accordions are actually Italian
or follow the Italian scheme.
(This includes all higher-end Hohners from around 1960 onwards.)

 

[petch]

Another vote for E1 here, but only because I got used to it so bass runs on anything else don't sound quite right to me now

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

My Hohner Morino and Atlantic both go down to E1. My Stradavox only went down to C when I got it, and I missed that deep bass rumble, so I changed out the two lowest octaves of bass reeds to make it go down to low E. That Hohner E has ruined me forever for less bassy accordions.

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

My Hohner Morino and Atlantic both go down to E1. My Stradavox only went down to C when I got it, and I missed that deep bass rumble, so I changed out the two lowest octaves of bass reeds to make it go down to low E. That Hohner E has ruined me forever for less bassy accordions.

Great!
How did you change it?
Did you replace reeds or you are using the same reeds?

I wanna change my accordion ( C2) to G1.

 

[Vladimir M.]

Hi!

I wanna change my accordion ( C2) to G1.

On my four accordions, I have the following deepest bass notes:

E1 (great free-bass concert instrument)
E1 (big 120- standardbass german instrument with 5-voices in the right hand (discant, 41 keys)
G1 (smallest 80- bass instrument, 3-voices in the right hand with 36 keys)
C2 (96- bass instrument, 3-voices in the right hand with 37 keys)
All four instruments have a four-voice bass.

I admit that the most ideal for me is a bass arrangement with E1, but not always. In some cases and situations (e.g. jazz) I prefer the bass with the lowest C2.

Three things are essential:

• what style of music do you want to play?
• how many choirs does the bass of your accordion have?
• how many bass registers do you have on your instrument and what combinations of tones do they turn on?

Not only the deepest note is important, but also the number of bass-choirs and the arrangement of the register-combination. For example, my big German instrument (with the lowest E1) has the following options in five bass registers:



From the picture it can be seen that such combinations give the player a very wide palette from soft higher tones to the most powerful tutti.

I wanna change my accordion ( C2) to G1.

It is possible that, in addition to the deepest tone, after some time you will want to change (rebuild) the register combinations as well. So, the deepest note itself is only part of a much broader problem called “the individual needs of the player”. Then the question is what is easier (and more cost-effective): to rebuild the current instrument or to buy another one with the required parameters...

Best regards,
Vladimir

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Great!
How did you change it?
Did you replace reeds or you are using the same reeds?

I wanna change my accordion ( C2) to G1.

I replaced the lowest 2 banks of reeds from E to B. I like Hohner bass reeds for those low notes. Nearly all Hohners go down to at least a low G, and some like the Atlantic, Imperator, and Morino go down to E. The bass reeds are loud and responsive. You can also lower any bass reed by adding weight to the tip. I use solder for this. However, you can only lower it so much before the response becomes too slow to be practicable. Low G should not be a problem. I would leave this to a professional though.

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

I would leave this to a professional though.

Yeah. I will!
Many professionals say that's no possible, others say that I should change the reed block together.

 

[Tor]

The lowest on mine is a G1, I think. Definitely a G, in any case. I've been happy with it. Seems to be a decent balance between low and still getting a good response from the reed.

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

The lowest on mine is a G1, I think. Definitely a G, in any case. I've been happy with it. Seems to be a decent balance between low and still getting a good response from the reed.

Yeah.
Siwa uses Low G, first octave in L.
Low G is good enough.

 

[debra]

Yeah. I will!
Many professionals say that's no possible, others say that I should change the reed block together.

Bass reed blocks on accordions with just standard bass are "straight", meaning that the bass block is equally tall on both ends, and the bass reed plates in each reed set of 12 reeds are also the same size. Bass reeds for the same note (frequency) are sold in different sizes to fit different size reed blocks. So in practice it is very well possible to change which note becomes the lowest by replacing some reeds by lower reeds of the same size. There is absolutely no need to change the reed blocks.

 

[Siegmund]

My ancient Weltmeister is G1. But the lowest notes hardly speak at all, so the break between F# and G is almost inaudible. I dont feel much presence from the lowest reed until about Bb.

The break between Eb and E, where the highest reed leaps down an octave, is screamingly obvious and has to be avoided.

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

The break between Eb and E, where the highest reed leaps down an octave, is screamingly obvious and has to be avoided.

I agree.
Eb2 and E1.
Scales on free bass works because you can control octaves, now on Stradella you can't it and leaps happen.

 

[debra]

I just finished work on an old Paolo Soprani that had melody bass go down to D1, and hence the octave jump (down) is at D. But the lowest reeds in the melody bass are not very powerful and as a result in Stradella mode you notice the jump less due to the Shepard tone effect.

 

[Tom]

What if the octave jump were considered a feature rather than a bug? Just saying…..

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

What if the octave jump were considered a feature rather than a bug? Just saying…..

Yes!
In counterpoints it is a characteristic. But in some cases it's a disadvantage for my style.

I just finished work on an old Paolo Soprani that had melody bass go down to D1, and hence the octave jump (down) is at D. But the lowest reeds in the melody bass are not very powerful and as a result in Stradella mode you notice the jump less due to the Shepard tone effect.

When I use 3, 4 or 5 voices, the jump is very imperceptible.
But when use 1 or 2 voices, the jump for scales is considerable.
Rebember that my accordion starts in A1.

D1. Awesome. Do you have images?

 

[Siegmund]

It can be a feature. But when everyone's instrument has the break in a different place, it's really hard to write anything that takes advantage of it, without dooming the piece to be played by one particular person, usually yourself. It's not remotely as standardized as "41-key right hands go from F to A" is.

Having the break in different positions in different bass ranks is a feature if you can select those ranks, and switch back and forth to use the set of reeds that works best with the key you are in.

But it (imo) makes the master switch unusable in almost all keys, unless the goal is just maximum noise without regard to the music. So I mostly regard it as a flaw when one instrument has 2 or 3 different octave breaks.

 

[dak]

I just finished work on an old Paolo Soprani that had melody bass go down to D1, and hence the octave jump (down) is at D.

I object to "hence". My main instrument has melody bass go down to D1, and the octave jump is at E (D1 and E♭1 are only in the melody bass, not in the standard bass). 14 reed chambers in the bass reed block.

But the lowest reeds in the melody bass are not very powerful and as a result in Stradella mode you notice the jump less due to the Shepard tone effect.

I think it's partly a matter of hearing at low frequencies. One mainly hears the overtones, and the bass reed chambers (and reeds) tend to be all the same size instead of following the pitches. That means they have similar resonances.

 

[Saulo_Henrique]

I have yet to find anyone who has changed C2 to G1 in my location.
I intend to change using a tin solder.
But I'm afraid of changing the timbre of the reeds.

PS: I won't do this, I will pay a professional.

 

[debra]

I have yet to find anyone who has changed C2 to G1 in my location.
I intend to change using a tin solder.
But I'm afraid of changing the timbre of the reeds.

PS: I won't do this, I will pay a professional.

There is not much risk of the timbre changing when you add weight to your bass reeds versus putting in new reeds of the same size and note as you want. Essentially the low octave reeds in an accordion are always all the same and differ in note by how much weight is added to them. Whether you add more weight yourself or you get new reeds that have more weight added already makes no difference.
However, an accordion that comes straight from the factory with a lower lowest note may have the whole lowest octave made out of longer reeds (on longer reed plates) and they will have a different sound.