I'm attracted to the sound of a Serenellini Jet piano accordion. The entire body and even the black keys are mahogany. My concern is durability. Scratches, delicate grill, etc. could be prone to crack, damage, more so than other materials. Opinions?
Mahogany piano accordion body?
- Thread starter Tom N
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
Luciano is a true craftsman and careful and meticulous and simply
would not put something out there that was an experiment until
he had made certain it was viable and robust enough to be fit for the purpose..
he is one of the few who can even DO some things like leather mounting reed 's
in a tone chamber with precision and perfection
i think, simply, if he's made something special available to us, it can be relied upon.
would not put something out there that was an experiment until
he had made certain it was viable and robust enough to be fit for the purpose..
he is one of the few who can even DO some things like leather mounting reed 's
in a tone chamber with precision and perfection
i think, simply, if he's made something special available to us, it can be relied upon.
OuijaBoard
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The Jet and several other Serenellini models come in Cherry as well as Mahogany. I've been drooling over a couple of the compact Cherry offerings with red bellows, such as the Jet, Teddy, and Oscar.. I believe a few Brandoni models also come in Cherry and Mahogany.
Is there a tonal difference? In guitar-land, mahogany is seen as a warm tonewood, and the Mahogany Serenellinis and Brandonis do sound very warm, as do the wood Scandallis. OTOH the experts tell us that chassis material has little to no bearing on accordion tone, so . . . Petosa specs list mahogany construction in its high-end models with the fancy a mano reeds as well as its somewhat lower priced Americana models with TAM reeds. TBH, I'm unsure exactly what the "mahogany construction" means.
I'd wager that either wood chassis material would be about par in terms of durability. Not invulnerable but not super frail. I've had Cherry and Walnut diatos by Castagnari, Saltarelle and Mengascini over the past 20 years or so with no cracking. Of course, they were small MMs, unsure if a large wood PA would be more vulnerable.
Scratches are a different matter. As Debra has noted elsewhere, the currently very desirable wood models do seem to acquire and display scratches and dings more readily than traditional cellulloid.
OuijaBoard
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One question I'd have with a wood PA is whether the accidental keys are finished the same way as wood-core PA keys that are black. Versus some sort of oil finish making those keys vulnerable to damage from finger oil/sweat. I:he played and seen plenty of wood button instruments but have never played or seen a wood PA or wood-finish PA accidental keys in person.
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96Bass
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Mahogany is good for the reed block, tone chamber, internals. Not so good for the outer case unless it has a tough protective top coating.
Cherry, Hard Maple, and Walnut are better choices for the exterior case.
Cherry, Hard Maple, and Walnut are better choices for the exterior case.
96Bass
Well-known member
The damaged accordion I wrote about in your other topic (accordion dealers) was a Mahogany Serenellini.
Aside from the "shipping" damage, I'd give the overall construction of the instrument a C-
Aside from the "shipping" damage, I'd give the overall construction of the instrument a C-
danp76
Active member
That’s too bad the wood construction was poor?
FYI - - the dealer I'm talking to gave me this link as an example of how they ship, and it is also insured, and if issues, will issue a return label for repair or replacement.
For some reason I get an error when I try to view the video.
I see this:
I tried it several times. Is it just me?
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
I guess you wouldn't want to be playing "Hoppo Bumpo" with your polished wood accordion, as I saw some preteen accordion students do while wearing their 1960s celluloid coated Galantis, awaiting their turn for a lesson, with no discernible effects on their accordions!
Hoppo Bumpo:
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Navigate the Australian Word Map to discover regional words and phrases across Australia. From Sydney to Perth, uncover the unique linguistic landscape.
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Walker
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Traditionally reed blocks were often made from a combination of woods; with the base being walnut (for stability/warp resistance), the middle section/chambers being spruce and the top dressed in a variety of woods, like spruce, mahogany, walnut, maple or even the glorious triple-tone finish known as stecca biliardo.
Manfrini's top model is called the Esperto. I think it is one of the best accordions for traditional Scottish dance music. It has mahogany reed blocks and body (though it's also coated in celluloid). Mahogany has a number of qualities that makes it good for reed blocks; such as its warp resistance, an attractive lustre, and the "de luxe" vibe that's oft prized in furniture making etc. However, when it comes to the Manfrini Esperto, it has another useful quality - the reeds are nailed to the reed blocks - and this species holds nails well. Mahogany is considered a tonewood and the body of many quality celluloid covered accordions (of various brands) are usually made from a ply of mahogany & spruce or even sometimes mahogany & maple.
Many manufacturers, like Dallape and others traditionally used spruce, known in Italy as abete rosso for reed blocks (but not the base of the reed block), sometimes sourcing the wood from the Fiemme Valley. Many manufacturers claim spruce reed blocks gives the best tone for an accordion. However, it is not suitable for nailing reeds in place.
On the other hand, some claim cedar wood is better for reed block chambers and tops as it gives a warm and rich tone to an accordion.
When you want to nail reeds to the reed blocks, especially for musette accordions in the North of Italy, alder wood was the traditional choice. It gives a powerful and clear tone. Like all of the woods mentioned above, it is a tonewood. It is good to see that this species of wood is used in such an important craft, because many folk would consider it to be a lesser, scrubby type of tree that just colonises wet habitats around river banks etc.
Maple tends to give a mellow and warm tone and was used a lot in great Scandalli instruments. American walnut was Gola's choice for dressing reed blocks...
Here's a little video about the Fiemme Valley.
This is quite an interesting post as I was led to believe the case “this was on a melodeon” and specifically the fondo has very little bearing in the sound produced ,as unlike a guitars vibrating soundboard what we actually want is as rigid and stiff as possible for the reeds?
I have considered building a walnut case for the Bell Hohner but was deterred as although it will inevitably change the sound If it doesn't actually “enhance” it like say the warmth of a mahogany guitar ,it seems pointless but if it actually makes a discernible quality difference it would certainly be a fun project.I made a partial 3d printed reed block to compare with a Hohner one and if there was a difference I could not hear it.
But I spent most of my life standing next to a crash cymbal so my hearing might be shot
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OuijaBoard
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Some of the "wood" accordions are laminated wood. But others are solid wood, and that's billed as a luxe premium spec. Don't know for certain but one would think the laminated would be stronger and less crack-prone than the solid---that is the case in guitar-land. Woodbody resonator guitars have more weight to hold together, and are usually laminate.
Those big solid-wood Victoria Poetas are breathtaking to behold, but would give me some trepidation.
Those big solid-wood Victoria Poetas are breathtaking to behold, but would give me some trepidation.
I'm not really worried about scratches and marking up a bit because I think that adds a little character to an instrument. I've closed the workshop and retired but I've still got some guitar sets and some lovely American black walnut reclaimed from an early harmonium and it would make you great case,but I more thinking if the case actually doesn't have any positive affect on the sound, it would look great but would obviously have to be considerably thicker than plywood. Perhaps that's the point with more mass it absorb higher frequencies so a warmer box?
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
Just looking closely at the composite aluminium and celluloid grill on my late 1940s Busilacchio and imagining how it would be were it made entirely of wood, whether solid or ply.
There's just no way it could be as delicate if all wood or as strong or durable at the same bulk, even if polyurethane impregnated ( or backed with carbon fibre cloth )
There's just no way it could be as delicate if all wood or as strong or durable at the same bulk, even if polyurethane impregnated ( or backed with carbon fibre cloth )
So you're saying you have doubts about a grill made of mahogany, right?Just looking closely at the composite aluminium and celluloid grill on my late 1940s Busilacchio and imagining how it would be were it made entirely of wood, whether solid or ply.
There's just no way it could be as delicate if all wood or as strong or durable at the same bulk, even if polyurethane impregnated ( or backed with carbon fibre cloth )
I suppose the only way to find out is to demo one or find a different box with similar attributes.
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Hi Dingo all solid wood can be a little misleading,the thinnest mahogany I,ve used for a soprano uke is just under 2mm and it obviously needs bracing so as you say I can't see carving any sort of design ,it would practical but a laminate 2.0mm 3 ply something like SATCo Grade (Aircraft) quality mahogany faced is incredibly strong and machines very well.Just looking closely at the composite aluminium and celluloid grill on my late 1940s Busilacchio and imagining how it would be were it made entirely of wood, whether solid or ply.
There's just no way it could be as delicate if all wood or as strong or durable at the same bulk, even if polyurethane impregnated ( or backed with carbon fibre cloth )
Hi Tom even Honduran mahogany is not actually hard to source or that expensive but "no voids" quality mahogany faced ply is actually quite expensive,been listening to some of the sound files on the site,and they have a most lovely punchy earthy but warm toneSo you're saying you have doubts about a grill made of mahogany, right?
I suppose the only way to find out is to demo one or find a different box with similar attributes.
Serenellini Accordions - 100% Made in Italy
Dal 1978 Serenellini realizza artigianalmente una vasta gamma di ottime fisarmoniche, in grado di soddisfare le esigenze dello studente e del professionista più esigente.
www.serenellini.com
I do wonder if solid wood sort of rounds off ruff edges because I have played a serenellini melodeon "I think it was all cherry"I know it had some quality reeds but I don't know what they were ,but it certainly did have that thick rich sound.
