More than one correct way to finger the bass?

[Mr Mark]

After two years of learning on my own I have recently decided to take some lessons for a variety of reasons. Networking, learning new exercises and styles, but probably most importantly so I can learn proper technique before too many things are engrained wrong.

My instructor has indicated that my bass fingerings are not right, in that I typically use the 4&3 fingers for both the Root/Major and Root/Minor combinations - but should be using the 4&2 for the Root/Minor combo. In trying to adjust myself out of this I am finding it fairly unnatural - perhaps it is my fat fingers getting in the way - so for example when I rest the fingertips all in a row starting with my fourth finger on the root note, my third finger is at least half off the Minor chord button. So I find my fingers are binding quite a bit when I am trying to do this almost to the point of being counterproductive.

I am typically of the value whatever works for you as we are all different, but is there any major detriment to me playing Root/Minor 4&3?

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Mark,

I must start out by saying that there are many more experienced players than me on this site, and that my input is merely a personal account of my own little experience.

The bass side of the instrument, as far as I am concerned, is very much akin to foot tapping. The simpler I can make it, the more successful I am at keeping the rhythm.

It is a very long way from perfection, but the "three chord trick" enables me to at least appear to know what I am doing.

Before anyone else says it, I am aware that different musical genres require more complex bass fingering. All that said, it is still possible to make nice music using a simplified bass technique.

Another important factor is the age at which you start playing. I was 67 before I ever picked up this infernal instrument, which is most certainly a disadvantage. Still, in my own crotchety way, I am able to play many of the tunes I enjoy.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[fjsys]

Well let me start with the standard response of both you and your teacher are wrong. 3/2 is clearly the better fingering position. (that is sarcasm for anyone taking me seriously, both strategies have their benefits)

But to be clear this is coming from a 3/2 guy on the bass so hopefully a 4/3 shows up and tells me I am wrong...

Basically the reason you would want to use 2 on the minor is so that you can get to the 3rd easier with your 5th finger.
When alternating a minor chord with it's root and 3rd you end up using either 3 or 4 on the root and 5 to reach down to the minor 3rd. For example in C the minor 3rd is Eb, so a alternating strategy would be C Cmin, Eb Cmin, G Cmin, C Cmin with the fingering being (for 4/3) 4 2, 5 2, 3 2, 4, 2.

Does this make sense?
Ben

 

[Glenn]

Without giving any other reason than “it appears most sensible “ I use 4/3 and 4/2 for maj/min. It leaves my hand in a neutral position allowing me to use my 3 rows of bass notes and promote my little finger to doing some useful work at times.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mityr]

An advantage 4-2 on minors and sevenths also gives you, is the ability to play the fifth with finger 3 when playing alternate basses. This enables you to not move the 4 finger from the root note and perhaps play a bit faster if needed.

Edit:
Picked up my accordion to test out 4-3 on minors and sevenths. While alternating by doing C-4, Cmin-3, G-2, Cmin-3 is possible, it feels a bit more clumsy - this could perhaps be attributed to my inexperience with fingering - while C-4, C7-3, G-2, C7-3 definitely doesn't feel ergonomic and fast in any way.

Hope this helps a bit. I might be too inexperienced to dish out advice!
Cheers
Mityr

 

[Happy girl]

I wonder if it would be advantages for you to ask your teacher to show you how to perform a bass scale using the correct fingering.

You only need to learn it once as the fingering is the same for any scale you choose to play.

This will probably be quite a challenge for you at first, but if you persevere you will defiantly get all five fingers moving; loosening them all up for greater flexibility resulting in more enjoyment when playing bass.

I use 4/3 and 4/2 for maj/min, this is the fingering I was initially taught in preparation for exams with the British College of Accordionist.

Good luck.

 

[george garside]

I also use 4/3 and 4/2 in the way 'happy girl' describes and arrived at so doing by the simple (relatively!!)process of trial and error

george :ch

 

[Mr Mark]

One day I will invest in one of those horse salt licks just to have around for instances when I am referring to the internet for advice. A grain of salt doesn't seem to ever be enough.

Having said that, these are all great responses, thank you all.

I've also been caught out dragging the first (root) bass note (ooooom-pah-pah) but have found that issue more subjective to the style of music being played. However it was definitely good to be made aware of and I am at least conscious of it and working to improve my 'control' overall - but still find for my own material - my style works better.


I can definitely see now where 3 for the majors and 2 for the minors makes more sense. It just remains to be seen if I can ungrain myself and/or skinny up my fingers. It also remains possible that for my own material I will keep things the same as it has been.

Just to be clear finger 1 is the thumb. So, wow, Ben, 2&3? Interesting. I am going to youtube a bunch and see if I can see that anywhere. But I can see the merit depending on what you are playing or specifically what you are saying yes. Also the merit in what you are saying Stephen. It is a blessing music is so forgiving in this manner, having said that I anticipate I will be playing this instrument from here on out and there will be enough time (god willing) for me to reasonably master things - thus I took up lessons from someone already well versed in the art. We'll see how I go retraining myself so to speak.

Thanks again.

 

[wirralaccordion]

I've never really thought about fingering. Obviously I've never had any lessons. I've just used whatever fingers fall onto the buttons required.
I've just checked out of interest and it would appear that I never use 4th and 5th fingers! Basically, I use 3rd finger for rows 1 and 2 and 2nd finger for rows 3 - 6.
This is strange - I have just got the Christmas Songbook by Gary Meisner and started to learn Little Drummer Boy. Without realising it I have been playing the major chords in the bass whereas I should have been playing two single notes together. According to what I just said I wouldn't be able to do this as I would have to use one finger to play two buttons simultaneously ( as the notes are side by side ). However, the two notes together sound worse to my ears than the F major chord and so I'll stick with the chord and use just the one button press ( actually 2 button presses because I play the root note with the chord )
I wonder if the two single notes played simultaneously sound worse because of the registration although the book specifically says master registration for the bass.

 

[TomBR]

I'm 4/3 and 4/2 for maj/min with Happy Girl and George G,
Tom

 

[JeffJetton]

So, wow, Ben, 2&3?

Yeah. 2-3. Its really a thing!

In fact, it seems to have been the most popular bass fingering for major chord bass patterns back in the day. Probably because the 2nd and 3rd fingers are strong and nimble right out of the gate. The 4th finger would be relatively weaker and less agile, especially at the young age at which accordion players typically started out in days of yore. Many--perhaps most?--accordion greats of that time (Myron Floren springs to mind) were 2-3 players.

4-3 seems to be more popular these days, and it makes more sense IMHO. Its how I do it, and its how I teach all my students (with exceptions for the ones who have been taught 2-3 by previous teachers and have it fairly well ingrained.)

But I think we all agree that 4-3 on minor chords is just weird. Quit it! :lol: {}

 

[StargazerTony]

I use 3/2 fingering exclusively. It's what my instructor taught me and has worked out great for me. Stretching to reach rows with the 2nd finger, has been challenging.

Now Stephen comes along with this toe tapping thing. My God, 3/2 bass fingering, up to five fingers on the right side, toe tapping, all the while keeping my heart going, my liver livering, or whatever it does, and all my other organs, organizing. I am clearly not that coordinated.

 

[Happy girl]

Somewhere, deep in my memory, is information that left handed people are more adept at playing Bass because their fingers are naturally more flexible.

Wherever this motion came from I have no idea, but it seems to be a positive trait for me!

 

[george garside]

do any left handed players play the piano box upside down i.e. with the treble keyboard on the left. I know of several 'melodeon' (small button box )players who do just that with the aid of an extra air button at the bottom which of course to them is the top!

george

 

[Pipemajor]

There was a left handed player in the club I used to go to who played his PA upside down.

 

[Mr Mark]

But I think we all agree that 4-3 on minor chords is just weird. Quit it! :lol: {}

:lol: The weird thing is how it was the natural thing for me to do without any form of instruction, and how everything else feels unnatural .

Good thing Im catching this now though, as there are only a few tunes I know with lots of minor use.


I imagine playing left handed upside down on a PA to be almost impossible given the bass buttons dont line up that way. The 4-3 would give you Root/5th maj...

But who knows, Im sure someone has given it a serious go.

 

[donn]

Just to be clear finger 1 is the thumb. So, wow, Ben, 2&3? Interesting. I am going to youtube a bunch and see if I can see that anywhere.

You might consider one of these Portuguese players - Im not real good a picking out what people do with their fingers, but see what you think.
Toni
Raul Godinho
Mário Neves

Note that they all have 3/3 Stradella bass, so primary bass is the 3rd row in from the bellows, not the 2nd.

If I had to guess from what Ive seen of it, the trend in instruction in Portugal has been to using the ring finger for primary bass, and its mostly older players who use the middle finger. (Toni is apparently young, but old school.) The older players do seem to be able to compensate somehow for their erroneous technique, though.

 

[Mr Mark]

Ive just checked out of interest and it would appear that I never use 4th and 5th fingers! Basically, I use 3rd finger for rows 1 and 2 and 2nd finger for rows 3 - 6.

Now that is a stretch.

 

[Mr Mark]

You might consider one of these Portuguese players - Im not real good a picking out what people do with their fingers, but see what you think.
Toni
Raul Godinho
Mário Neves

Note that they all have 3/3 Stradella bass, so primary bass is the 3rd row in from the bellows, not the 2nd.

If I had to guess from what Ive seen of it, the trend in instruction in Portugal has been to using the ring finger for primary bass, and its mostly older players who use the middle finger. (Toni is apparently young, but old school.) The older players do seem to be able to compensate somehow for their erroneous technique, though.

Interesting! Skill far beyond me at this point...perhaps this has been a trapping of mine in that I have played pretty simple bass rhythm stuff up until now, but good to recognize it if I am to progress to more complicated stuff. I liked the first piece best, especially the darker passages. They are all definitely fluid on the left!

I wasnt really aware of a 3/3 before but doesnt surprise me given all the other variations of free reedery out there. Would it be standard to say the inside row is usually a major third of the second row? I am definitely aware of the need for better technique on my part, which is to say, not mine :b , but considering mine are standard issue PAs and my fingers are shorter it will likely be the 4/2 consensus here.

 

[donn]

I liked the first piece best, especially the darker passages.

Yeah, there are lots of players with astonishing technique, not as many who put any detectible feeling into it.

I wasn't really aware of a 3/3 before but doesn't surprise me given all the other variations of free reedery out there. Would it be 'standard' to say the inside row is usually a major third of the second row?

Yes ... on both of mine, each bass row is related to the next in the same way, so, starting with primary C, the next row is E, then G#. How useful, eh? G#, goes with so many C chords. But the way the columns are tilted, the easily reached button from C isn't in its column, but rather in the G column - G/B/D# - and that D# is the minor third.

I've read that this configuration isn't the only way it's done, some 3/3 configurations move the 3rd row over so the minor third will be in the "correct" but harder to reach column. I hope that's rare.