New Member--Questions About My New Accordion

[John M]

New to Forum. I have browsed the Forum for a few months now and am amazed at the information available here.

A little about me. When I was seven I took accordion lessons for 3 years and still have my Rivoli ¾ size accordion. When I got married, I bought an old Hammond B3, have restored/rebuilt it (all the tube amps) and played it on/off through the years. After many years of not touching my accordion, I have developed an interest in playing it again. I always wanted a full size accordion. I bought a used Excelsior Model 960 a month ago. To me, the tone is fantastic and it seems to be in good condition. Below are some pics of it.

Can anyone tell me by the looks and model # about what year it was made?

You can see a microphone in the treble side. There are two adjustment pots on the front. I was told they are for treble and bass adjustment. At first I thought one pot would adjust a mic on the treble side and the other would adjust a mic on the bass side. However, I don’t see any wiring to a mic on the bass side, so I think the accordion only has one mic and the two pots to adjust the amount of treble and bass that goes to the output jack on the bottom. What kind of amplifier can I use with this microphone output? Is it a high level output like a crystal pick up? Will the output of the mic drive the input of a guitar amp? I don’t need a fancy amp, as I like the sound of the accordion as it is. However, I think a little Reverb would be nice to add to the sound. Maybe an older tube type amp that I can rebuild myself.

I hope the flood of questions is not too excessive.

John M.

P.S. On the registration tabs, what does the white “M. Vivace” stand for? That tab has a nice Tremolo/Vibrato sound. I suppose what it is called is not too important--just curious. What I like are the “dots” that show the LMMMH combinations

 

[jozz]

nice instrument!

if the mic has a jack plug, you can pretty much be certain it is high impedance and you can run it straight into your guitar amp.

I only know that 'vivace' means 'lively' so I suppose it's the lively version of the musette. I always just call it double-8.

I also don't know what year this is...

happy playing! {}

 

[debra]

From the looks this is the Excelsior own brand equivalent of the Hohner Morino IV and it is a truly fine instrument.
The fourth image, showing the inside of the treble part, shows a reed plate at the top left of the image that has the name of the manufacturer engraved in it. To date the instrument (very roughly) it helps to know what that name is. (The image as posted is too low resolution (960x540) for us to be able to read it.) Many reed makers stopped making reeds at some point, so that's why knowing the name helps with dating. Also, that reed is missing a valve so the note will not play well in the L register. You need to add a valve there.
The mic is not worth having. Low quality, and it is on the inside. You will never get good sound from such a mic, both because of the type of the mic and because of its position. Such mics were used in the fifties and sixties (at the latest).
The register switches are a rather old model. I would be very surprised if this instrument was younger than 1970.
The instrument has an unusual register selection: You have M in cassotto, no single M outside of cassotto, but it has MM with one M in cassotto and one not, M M with both M's not in cassotto, so that gives a very fast tremolo (hence the "M" for musette and "vivace" for it being a fast tremolo) and MMM which has the M in cassotto reducing the tremolo effect of the other two M reeds a bit, so this is "Musette".
In any case, a nice, quality instrument. Enjoy it!

 

[John M]

Thanks for the detailed information. The name engraved on the top left name plate is CAGNONI. Does that help with identifying the age? I found the “red dot” valve for the first reed plate down in the accordion. What adhesive should I use to remount it?

I am surprised that this accordion could be 50 or more years old. It doesn’t appear to have been rebuilt. The wax looks like new, the bellows are tight. When I pull out the bellows go out very slow with no key pressed. Also, with LMMMH selected all reeds trigger evenly with very little bellow pressure.

I understand that the 960 has a double tone chamber. From posts I have read on this forum that is the same as cassotto. Also, that means there are two sets of reeds in cassotto. How can you tell which reeds are in cassotto or not from the registration switch dots. For instance in above post, “. . .MM with one M in Cassotto and one not. . .”. Also “. . .M M with both M’s not in cassotto. . .” If the “dot” is in the middle does that mean cassotto. For this 960 how can I tell what other reed set (L or H) is in cassotto?

I would appreciate any additional information.

John M.

 

[maugein96]

Hi,

Can't answer much of your question, but as far as I can recall Cagnoni is/was an Italian reed maker who supplied hand made and quality machine made reeds to various makers, including Cavagnolo in France.

 

[Waldo]

John,
The 960 was a top of the line professional accordion. I have a 921 that is similar in appearance, but ha only 4 banks on the treble side (2 x 2). You're reeds are doubtless of the hand made variety. Pigini bought out Excelsior (in the late 80's, I think), and when the records of both were combined, they claim the records from that period were lost. I believe the 960 was available in the 1960's and 70's. Mine is a later model mfg'd. in the late 1970's-80's, although uses the same grille pattern. The current 921R (starts at $8500 US, & up), also uses the same grille. They're excellent accordions. In the US, they typically run in the $2500-3000 range (ebay and dealers)for the 960 (and 921). You scored.

Press on...
Waldo

 

[debra]

Thanks for the detailed information. The name engraved on the top left name plate is CAGNONI. Does that help with identifying the age? I found the “red dot” valve for the first reed plate down in the accordion. What adhesive should I use to remount it?

Very good info. Its a bit odd that it is CAGNONI because it is stamped into the low F reed whereas Cagnoni used to put the stamp into the low E in the instruments that I saw. But it is useful info because Excelsior first used Bugari reeds and only later started using Cagnoni reeds. This makes me estimate your instrument to be from 1980 or younger.

...I understand that the 960 has a double tone chamber. From posts I have read on this forum that is the same as cassotto. Also, that means there are two sets of reeds in cassotto. How can you tell which reeds are in cassotto or not from the registration switch dots. For instance in above post, “. . .MM with one M in Cassotto and one not. . .”. Also “. . .M M with both M’s not in cassotto. . .” If the “dot” is in the middle does that mean cassotto. For this 960 how can I tell what other reed set (L or H) is in cassotto?

Double tone chamber and double cassotto is the same thing and the double refers to having two sets of reeds in cassotto. Barring rare exceptions the reeds in cassotto are always L and M. (A few accordions models with L and H in cassotto exist, but I have never seen one from Excelsior.) In the register notation the M dot in the center is the one in cassotto. So a single M dot in the center is M in cassotto. A single M dot not in the center would mean M outside of cassotto but you do not have that. The M in the center + M to the right of it is a light tremolo with the M in cassotto and the M outside of cassotto that is tuned sharp. The M left + M right means the two M reeds not in cassotto, left is tuned flat, right is tuned sharp, so together they have a lot of tremolo, hence the vivace.

 

[John M]

Wow! Where could I get such detailed information about my 960. I sure do like that M. Vivace registration. I don’t play very well, but it’s amazing how what you learned when you were a kid stays with you. It’s coming back quickly the more I play. I pulled out some of my old J. H. Sedlon accordion books and some of the simplest tunes sound great. I like to play Whispering Hope. I start with the velvety deep Bassoon, then switch to the contrasting Vivace which just shimmers when playing thirds. My wife especially likes that tune.

For the leather valve that fell off, what would be the best adhesive to use—Elmer’s wood glue? I think something like Super Glue wouldn’t be good for the leather.

John M.

 

[debra]

...
For the leather valve that fell off, what would be the best adhesive to use—Elmer’s wood glue? I think something like Super Glue wouldn’t be good for the leather.
...

Wood glue is used a lot in accordions, but NOT for leather (or plastic) valves. You essentially do not want to use wood glue to glue something to metal (the reed plate).
Bostik or Pattex is recommended, but I prefer the glue that shoemakers use. Pattex has a shoe glue that is very much like the professional shoe-repairers glue. You put glue onto the end of the valve in what is essentially a square area. (With the large valves maybe a bit longer than the valve is wide.
But... for the low notes you also need a booster spring and a small paper disk to help hold it in place. (The booster is glued at one end, the end where the valve is also glued. The paper disk can just be what comes out of a perforator.)
Because valves are sold in rather large quantity (like 50 or more) and booster springs in huge quantity (like 1.000) its best to go to an accordion repairer and have it done.

 

[John M]

[/quote]But... for the low notes you also need a booster spring and a small paper disk to help hold it in place. (The booster is glued at one end, the end where the valve is also glued. The paper disk can just be what comes out of a perforator.)
Because valves are sold in rather large quantity (like 50 or more) and booster springs in huge quantity (like 1.000) its best to go to an accordion repairer and have it done.
[/quote]

Below see the pic of the valve that fell off. Is the red dot, the small paper disk and the thin silver wire the booster spring? If so, then is the shoe glue all I need to reattach the valve to the reed plate?

 

[debra]

...
Below see the pic of the valve that fell off. Is the red dot, the small paper disk and the thin silver wire the booster spring? If so, then is the shoe glue all I need to reattach the valve to the reed plate?
Valve.JPG

Lucky you that the valve was still laying around. All you need indeed is a tube of Bostik or Pattex (or Pattex shoe glue which I prefer over regular Pattex) and you can reattach the valve. Use very little glue so it does not oose out when you press the valve in place. Make sure the valve and booster are like the top of this picture:
http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/castelfidardo-2018/slides/P4301373.jpg>

and not like the bottom. The small pyramid you see is made with pincers and ensures the booster lays flat. This also regulates the amount of resistance the booster offers. Dont overdo it. The end of the booster is curled up so it cannot catch in the leather when the valve opens.

 

[Waldo]

That's a really good detail to know about. Thanks, Paul.

Waldo