Occhi Chorni - Trying to figure out A major to Bb major transition

[edy]

Hi,

I am a complete newbie trying to play Occhi Chorni (Dark Eyes) and having a tough time figuring out something. It starts with D minor then goes to A major and eventually to G minor 7th. However there is a B major just before the G minor 7th, which means I can use the G minor to play the Bb and D of the Bb major but then need to hit an F somewhere to compete the chord. I can’t reach to the normal Bb major because I have to jump from A all the way down to Bb (going back up to G isn’t a big deal). If I play a G7 the problem is it’s a G *major* 7 and will play a B (3) and F (7) so I can get the F that way but it will also add a B which isn’t good.

So I’m trying to figure out how to best go from A major to Bb major (pretty much any semi-tone differing major chord) without having to jump to the root. So far my only solution is to play the G minor (which gives me the Bb and D) and then just make it into a Bb major by incorporating the F and essentially a Bb major chord in my right hand ;on the piano side) and that’s it. Then I add the G root to the G minor to transition from my Bb major to the G minor chord that’s next. It’s easier to jump from A major chord (A root plus major button for C# E) down to G minor button (just the Bb and D) for a fake “Bb major” adding F in the right hand, and then add the G root for my G minor chord (G Bb D).

Any thoughts? Does anyone know this song and have any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[debra]

It's not really a question about this song but about the bass jumps. My experience has been that the best thing to do is to practice, practice, practice until you can hit the right note after the jump each and every time. This jump may appear in many more songs that you will encounter in your lifetime, so it's best to learn it once and for all...
As for Occhi Chorni, it exists in a thousand versions, mainly because it's just one melody so to turn it into a longer piece every player (or arranger) has to do a lot of work to add variations to make it interesting. So if you don't like the version with the difficult jump, take another one from the many versions around there.

 

[godgi]

A tip might be to locate your wrist in mid area perhaps use 3/2 for a and 5/4 for bflat.ie what i call the pinkie(5). Another example of abig jump is f to d flat in the "other" Amelie waltz. A very nice piece also to consider jump practice!!
Godgi

 

[JerryPH]

I don't know about this specific variation (its 6am here as I type this), but also, don't be afraid to use all your fingers. A jump using 2 fingers may be difficult, but that same jump using the 5th finger suddenly may make it easier, if only awkward at first due to inexperience.

 

[edy]

Thanks for the advice. I’ve seen a few variations of Ochi Chorni and the more basic ones go Dm, A then Gm. They leave out the “Bb” between the A and Gm so it’s easier. But the versions I listen to and like more have that Bb in them, like this link provided:

https://www.arrigotomasi.com/CL1/DarkEyes_Accordion.pdf

Looking at the circle of 5ths the A to Bb is 5 bass row jumps. The worst possible is 6 rows apart (complete opposites on circle). You can see why it flows nicely into Gm because it is the same as Bb. I guess I need to just learn muscle memory for the jumps and perhaps use the pinky to hit only the Bb bass for now while I fill in the chord on the piano side.

Jumping from Bb bass to G root for the next Gm chord is then a relatively manageable 3 jumps up which is within reach if my pinky is on Bb. Thankfully my accordion has dimples on the C, A and Ab (all 4 jumps apart). But I imagine I won’t be feeling for dimples but just learn the jump and take a blind leap of faith as I don’t have time to go feeling for the button!

 

[JeffJetton]

I'll echo the advice already given that, with practice, you'll be able to eventually nail that flying leap from A to Bb. Yes, it is a pain in the rear, but that's how it goes.

If you do decide to just play Bb bass and fill in the chord in the RH, you may find it easier to go with A# (counterbass of F#) instead. I use that cheat a lot myself.

All that said, you could also play that A7 as an A7(b9) chord by combining A bass (played as counterbass of F) with the Bb dim button. Since it's the V7 in a minor key, the added b9 should sound quite nice. And I'm assuming you'd be coming from playing the Em7(b5) as counterbass E plus Gm anyway, so you're set up well for the A7(b9).

 

[losthobos]

@JeffJetton ... And here's a little lesson to illustrate the tension and release that min to 7b9 gives..
Cool little motion

 

[Pipemajor]

Thanks Losthobos. What a wonderful resource.
If this sort of teaching had been around when I was young, I would have paid far more attention to my piano lessons