On Creation/Improvisation.

[Tom]

Ok, I am making this a new thread to try to get more reactions:

Another thing I derived from this simple (but beautiful) Czech song (“To the Forest”, Alan knows the Czech, I don’t). A pattern I have noticed before.

1. Start with a simple melody in the I chord that goes to the V chord.

2. Repeat the melody in the V chord back to the I chord.

3. Fool around a little in the I chord, then do a ii V I back.

4. Repeat.

5. For the second part, do the same thing starting on the V chord, with a different but related melody, probably an octave or so higher.

6. Repeat, but this time do the ii V I back to the I chord.

Or to a different chord(s) and eventually back to the I chord.

So, let’s say you’re sitting (standing) at the farmers market and you don’t feel like playing Beer Barrel (again). Just think up any dumb melody on the fly and take this pattern in polka, waltz or any other form and pass the time.

I’m pretty sure that’s what Frankie Yankovic did on a regular basis, as evidenced by those 4 books that John showed us.

Anybody do this on your gigs?

 

[JerryPH]

Just to add, breaking apart styles and analysing them is very advanced, and way up there. I know a few people that do that, and mostly they are improvisational specialists like Cory Pesaturo. He first explained the pattern for a French Watlz, and then live and on the spot created a never before heard French tune that sounded quite French.

Now obviously, he filtered this through his usual 10,000 notes per measure and that is always impressive to see.

Me, I see and recognize the patterns, but I am a simple note player and benefit from minds greater than mine.

Improvisation has never really been "honest" for me, it's like faking your way through something to come back to the piece that you forgot to practice properly... lol. Now, before anyone jumps in to attack, this is me, everyone is free to do it the way it's written in their hearts. Maybe thats why Jazz was never a thing for me.

 

[losthobos]

@Tom
I'm with you on this one.....if I'm playing somewhere "just background chill" and l running low on the memory bank or just can't face playing another chorus again....slip in a simple melody onto a simple progression....noodle around about and resolve to the 1.....get confident with ii V I, vi ii V I, III vi ii V I, VII III vi ii V I. You've got the picture ....soon as gets a little wobbly resolve back to the I ...
Some days you strike gold......on better days you can even remember it for next time....
Dead boring playing same as same as again and again till you've throttled a tune to death by boredom....
Not so confident if I think anyone is actually LISTENING though ....

 

[Walker]

@JerryPH

I'm with you on this one buddy. Keep it simple and play it well. That's the best way! A lot of folk probably can't do that, so they muddy the water as a diversion tactic and they talk in roman numerals to confuse simple, country folk like me. But we know the score Jerry! There's no one pulling the wool over our eyes! No siree. No way, no how. Unless you're Richard Galliano, that is, I'd let him off with it... okay and Cory too. And all those American Jazz guys that do that sort of thing. And those South American guys who play Scandalli, I'd let them off with it. But that's it... stop it. No more higgledy-piggledy tunes!​

 

[Tom]

@JerryPH

I'm with you on this one buddy. Keep it simple and play it well. That's the best way! A lot of folk probably can't do that, so they muddy the water as a diversion tactic and they talk in roman numerals to confuse simple, country folk like me. But we know the score Jerry! There's no one pulling the wool over our eyes! No siree. No way, no how. Unless you're Richard Galliano, that is, I'd let him off with it... okay and Cory too. And all those American Jazz guys that do that sort of thing. And those South American guys who play Scandalli, I'd let them off with it. But that's it... stop it. No more higgledy-piggledy tunes!​

Oh Stewart surely you jest! . I’ve taken that Train to Vercelli and seen plenty of your originals…. No more hiding behind the burn!

 

[Tom]

@Tom
I'm with you on this one.....if I'm playing somewhere "just background chill" and l running low on the memory bank or just can't face playing another chorus again....slip in a simple melody onto a simple progression....noodle around about and resolve to the 1.....get confident with ii V I, vi ii V I, III vi ii V I, VII III vi ii V I. You've got the picture ....soon as gets a little wobbly resolve back to the I ...
Some days you strike gold......on better days you can even remember it for next time....
Dead boring playing same as same as again and again till you've throttled a tune to death by boredom....
Not so confident if I think anyone is actually LISTENING though ....

Oh, some cool progressions there, Terry! Gotta give them a try. I with you on scurrying quickly back to the 1 when it goes wobbly, that’s definitely what I do.

 

[Tom]

Just to add, breaking apart styles and analysing them is very advanced, and way up there. I know a few people that do that, and mostly they are improvisational specialists like Cory Pesaturo. He first explained the pattern for a French Watlz, and then live and on the spot created a never before heard French tune that sounded quite French.

Now obviously, he filtered this through his usual 10,000 notes per measure and that is always impressive to see.

Me, I see and recognize the patterns, but I am a simple note player and benefit from minds greater than mine.

Improvisation has never really been "honest" for me, it's like faking your way through something to come back to the piece that you forgot to practice properly... lol. Now, before anyone jumps in to attack, this is me, everyone is free to do it the way it's written in their hearts. Maybe thats why Jazz was never a thing for me.

Good points Jerry, but I’ll make an analogy here between improvisation and green screening. In my humble opinion only here both are super cool when done tastefully and discreetly, as you do. I mean, really, what is green screening but improvisation on the scene? But when the player starts to float and break up, the background has no relation to the tune, or is too outlandish, etc, it can drive you crazy, as I know it does! Same with improvisation, when it is understated and relates to the tune it’s great, when it makes no sense, or is too “out there” then, as we say, fuggeddaboutit! And you know my opinion about a million notes a second, it’s the same situation.

Again, just my opinion!!!!!

 

[Walker]

Oh Stewart surely you jest! . I’ve taken that Train to Vercelli and seen plenty of your originals…. No more hiding behind the burn!

I was indeed, Tom, making light of serious questions about improvisation. You are right, may we always be free to express our music the way we choose. I, being an old-fashioned kinda guy, like to keep it simple and play the tune without improvisation, but I don't mind anyone taking the scenic route, if they prefer. I would perhaps treat composition slightly differently to improvisation, but I take your point, Tom, its all about creativity.​

 

[John M]

Ok, I am making this a new thread to try to get more reactions:

Another thing I derived from this simple (but beautiful) Czech song (“To the Forest”, Alan knows the Czech, I don’t). A pattern I have noticed before.

1. Start with a simple melody in the I chord that goes to the V chord.

2. Repeat the melody in the V chord back to the I chord.

3. Fool around a little in the I chord, then do a ii V I back.

4. Repeat.

5. For the second part, do the same thing starting on the V chord, with a different but related melody, probably an octave or so higher.

6. Repeat, but this time do the ii V I back to the I chord.

Or to a different chord(s) and eventually back to the I chord.

So, let’s say you’re sitting (standing) at the farmers market and you don’t feel like playing Beer Barrel (again). Just think up any dumb melody on the fly and take this pattern in polka, waltz or any other form and pass the time.

I’m pretty sure that’s what Frankie Yankovic did on a regular basis, as evidenced by those 4 books that John showed us.

Anybody do this on your gigs?

I recognize that.
Another one I really like (and some people hate) is the "12 bar blues" which is I,I,I,I--IV,IV--I,I--V--IV--I,I.
The reason I like it is you can "feel the beat" and play many different "Riffs" in the right hand, "Walking Bass" in the left hand and many different combinations of the two. I don't think I ever play the "12 bars" the same way twice.