Parrot bought Bugari?

[Morne]

Over at the German musician forum: https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/bugari-von-parrot-uebernommen.685255/

In a recent issue of a German accordion magazine there is an interview mentioning that Parrot bought Bugari. Here is a screenshot of the magazines text posted in that thread:

I dont have the magazine, nor have I seen this anywhere else, so I am not making this claim myself. Just posting it here since it might be interesting to others.

 

[Deleted member 48]

The Parrot website doesnt give much information, I found only this piece of info:
http://en.ywyueqi.com/news_list.html
Date:2017-06-12
quote:
Bugari agent in China

Summary:

Parrot will be Bugaris agent in Chinese market. There is going a long relationship between two companies for comunicating of technology and market.

 

[Deleted member 48]

This might also interest you, info on a visit by Czech Harmonikas reeds maker to the Parrot company:
http://en.ywyueqi.com/news_detail/newsId=6.html

 

[Deleted member 48]

If I may add a link to this article in the worldwide accordion news:
http://www.accordions.com/news.aspx?d=26-Oct-2018&lang=en#art14838

Its about a visit of a Castelfidardo delegation to South Korea. The Asian market is important for Castelfidardo, for production/sales/marketing etc.
Maybe other members have more specific information on the commercial relationship between Bugari and Parrot?
The Bugari company was also represented by an accordionist in the Seoul delegation visit:

A delegation of five musicians representing accordion companies of Castelfidardo will be in Seoul from 4 to 9 November.

Thanks to the financial support of the Marche Region (Department of Culture), with the patronage of the Comune di Castelfidardo and the Associazione Music Marche Accordions as Project Leader, this cultural mission plans to enhance both culture and economic value.

With the collaboration of the Italian Embassy in Seoul and the Italian Cultural Institute, the delegation of musicians will have a series of concerts, meetings with the mass media and presentations, to promote the image of quality accordions from Castelfidardo.

On the evening of 6th November, the Italian Ambassador in Seoul, Marco Della Seta has organized a Reception and Concert featuring these musicians at the Italian Embassy.

The musical delegation (in alphabetical order) and the companies they represent are:
- Gary Blair (Pasco Italia)
- Giuseppe di Falco (Beltuna)
- Andrea Naspi (Pigini)
- Marco Lo Russo (Bugari)
- Antonio Spaccarotella (Scandalli)

 

[Alan Sharkis]

First, I must apologize for a rather long, but what I feel is a clarification of the issues brought up in this thread, But please read it through before drawing any conclusions,

It is true that Bugari has had a long relationship with Parrot. and other Asian companies -- sharing product and tecnology among other things. Some Bugari products are distributed in Shanghai, Seoul, and Singapore.

Second, I must relate a little bit of relatively recent history. A few years ago, Bugari created a division known as the EVO division. Their first digital product consisted two lines -- the Haria P41 and the Haria B55.. Both lines share electronics licensed from Roland. The Haria B41s are digital accordions in real wooden cases with real wooden keyboards, and pallets. The electronics are essentially Roland FR-8x accordions, but the wooden case adds a warmer sound, the keyboards and pallets contribute to more realistic air flow and acoustic-like feel, and a different battery placement makes the accordions balance better than the FR-8x. These are 41 treble key, 120 bass accordions that weigh one pound less than the Roland FR-8x on which they are based. The Haria B55 is based Rolands FR-8xb, a chromatic button version of the FR-8x. Both of these Bugari EVO lines have three trim levels, with several finishes and colors within each of the upper two trim levels. All are attractive; some of the higher-end ones are very attractive. However, some of the features of the Roland FR-8x and Fr-8xb have not yet been licensed to Bugari, with the result that current Bugari EVO models do not have those features.

More recently, the Bugari EVO division has announced the creation, in conjunction with Parrot, the Ronnie Da-Prima P34 and Ronnie Da-Prima B46. These are 72-bass accordions with a 34-key treble keyboard in the Ronnie Da-Prima P34 and 46 CBA buttons in the Ronnie -DaPrima B46. Both the announcement of the Ronnie Da-Primas and pictures of some of them appear on the Bugari EVO Facebook page. I downloaded these pictures and discovered the following:

1. Upon enlarging one of the pictures, I saw controls with labels reminiscent of Roland controls, but in different locations.

2. Upon enlarging another of the pictures I saw that the LCD screens frame showed exposed screwheads in the corners.

These small digital accordions were on display for a small number of days in Shanghai and will be distributed exclusively in China next year. In my humble opinion, unlike the Bugari EVOs, neither the colors of the Ronnie Da-Primas in the photographs nor the grille designs would be pleasing to the Western Eye. However, Bugari does state that the accordions will be available in other colors, as well.

Please note that Bugari acoustic accordions are still being made, that they are considered to be high-end, and that this will probably continue for the forseeable future, and that I have not encountered any official indication of a sale of Bugari to Parrot or any other entity.

Alan Sharkis

 

[JerryPH]

No, I kind of doubt that Parrot bought Bugari. However, what I do think is that the people associated not with Bugari, but the Bugari EVO division, are looking to enter in to the Chinese market in a big way... what better way than through an established path and customer base via Parrot? The same thing the EVO people did with Petosa in North America.




http://en.ywyueqi.com/news_detail/newsId=5.html

 

[Morne]

This interview was conducted with Professor Cao Xiaoqing (Head of Accordion at Central Conservatory of Music, Beijing) on 5 May 2018 at the International Accordion Competition in Klingenthal.

This might very well be a mistranslation/miscommunication/misunderstanding related to the co-operation between those companies. Or even within a division like EVO. Granted, the previous question in the interview is about the development of electronic accordions. However, it seems a little strange that an accordion magazine would not be more clear, or at least try to get more information, when the answer to a question about the state of Chinese manufacturing is:

The Chinese are very active. For example, Parrot has just bought the Italian company Bugari. Overall also a very exciting topic for the future.

The latest news on Parrots website is from June 2017. This interview is from almost a year later, so things mightve developed since they announced that partnership on their website. Given the (mostly justified, I suppose) stigma attached to Chinese manufacturers, I can imagine why people probably wouldnt want to make too much noise about an acquisition like this - assuming this actually happened.

 

[Morne]

I just got a response from Roberto Ottavianelli at Bugari and he said that they've got a business partnership with Parrot regarding digital accordions. That's in line with what's been mentioned in this thread.

The interview's a bit misleading then. So unless some groundbreaking news comes out, I'm going to consider this settled - i.e. Parrot did not buy Bugari.

 

[george garside]

Oh Bugar !

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

I have been reading this thread with interest, but have refrained from commenting until now.

My one and only observation is about the trend for Chinese Accordion Manufacturers to buy out ailing European concerns. It remains to be seen whether or not this is the case with Bugari, but I must remind you that a great deal of effort has been made in the past to hide these transactions and mislead consumers.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[JerryPH]

I don't know how the rest of Bugari is run, but I will say past history clearly shows that the EVO division seems to work almost entirely independent of the rest of the company. They make decisions and go directions that the rest of the company (ieL all acoustic instruments), seems to have little to nothing to do with... for example:
- location of where they sell Bugari vs where they sell Bugari EVOs
- service agreements, service providers
- pricing decisions
- development pace and direction, product evolution and where they release new products first
- they even have a separate website from the rest of Bugari

I would not be surprised if Parrot "bought in" to the EVO side of the business, but not touching the acoustic accordion side at all. The leader of that division Marco Cingalia (potential spelling error of his last name), spends an inordinate amount of time in China marketing and developing personal and business relationships, however, in this case, I doubt Bugari would let that sale happen, so likely Parrot is just involved with the digital electronic accordion side... and to what level, only Parrot and Bugari EVO know at this time.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Jerry,

You could well be right, though I wouldn't put money on it.

We have seen other Italian & German manufacturers go the same way, so concern is not completely unwarranted.

Some time ago, perhaps more than a year, I provided evidence that a majority shareholding in Hohner was held by a Taiwanese Investment Group. This provoked utter condemnation from some members, who refused to believe what I had written. A few people treated me as though I had been caught clubbing baby seals to death, and they failed to withdraw their unfounded criticism even after my assertions had been proved beyond any doubt.

This is one reason that I have not categorically stated my belief in this case. I do not know if Parrot have bought out Bugari, but I do think it is possible. We will just have to wait until the picture becomes a little clearer.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

It seems about the EVO division. There is a lot of recent posting by Cinaglia on the Bugari EVO facebook group concerning a China promotion tour. There is this one posting:

....
The Bugari EVO Digital Division team is proud to announce the RONNIE DA - PRIMA P34 / B46
Technical features:
PIANO model: 34 keys 72 Bass
BUTTONS model: 46 buttons 72 Bass
New technology developed by the Bugari EVO team in collaboration with the PARROT Accordion.
This entry level model will be available for the Chinese market starting in 2019
The new Digital Accordion RONNIE DA - PRIMA P34 / B46 will be on display at Music China 2018 (Shanghai) from 10 to 13 October 2018 in the PARROT Accordion booth.
Stay tuned!!!!...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1293530343996862/2209657295717491/

 

[dunlustin]

Has this been mentioned:
EVO uses Roland technology (apparently with bits missing) so if EVO have teamed up with Parrot, how does that affect Roland instruments - if at all?

 

[maugein96]

Time they got this all sorted out. A guy went into our local pet shop/store to buy a parrot and came out with an accordion in a cage, as neither he nor the pet shop owner could tell the difference.

Then when he got home the accordion fell to bits. They had replaced all the screws with "Evo-Stik" glue and he had left it too close to a radiator.

He asked me who he should contact to make a claim for compensation, but I had to tell him that because he'd bought the accordion in a cage that he never had a case.

Unfortunately the name "Bugari" is a very crude term in the west of Scotland, and people are often told to go there during heated disputes. If you accent the first syllable instead of the second one you should get the picture. We actually don't spell it that way, but it sounds the same.

Seems the whole accordion world is heading for that same place, whatever you call it where you live.

 

[JerryPH]

Has this been mentioned:
EVO uses Roland technology (apparently with bits missing) so if EVO have teamed up with Parrot, how does that affect Roland instruments - if at all?

For the moment, little if nothing. Roand is not stupid, they are not going to give away their proprietary electronics away for nothing. Yes, there are several things that the Haria line of EVo cannot or does not have compared to the 8X.
- no after touch in the keys (you can program it to the master bar switch... VERY inconvenient)
- battery location is IMHO a poor choice. On 8x, remove 2 screws, remove battery. On EVO, you have to pull the accordion apart at the bellows
- The Richard Noel sets do not work on an EVO
- heck, none of the new expansions from Roland work on the EVO

Now, there are no guarantees in life, and in the future, Parrot may add functionality, and this would pull the digial Buari line further away from Roland, but with the speed that the EVO division moves at, we are talking decades for anything to happen... if it happens at all (it took EVO over 2 years just to make a price list available... lol)

 

[JerryPH]

Time they got this all sorted out. A guy went into our local pet shop/store to buy a parrot and came out with an accordion in a cage, as neither he nor the pet shop owner could tell the difference.

Then when he got home the accordion fell to bits. They had replaced all the screws with Evo-Stik glue and he had left it too close to a radiator.

He asked me who he should contact to make a claim for compensation, but I had to tell him that because hed bought the accordion in a cage that he never had a case.

Unfortunately the name Bugari is a very crude term in the west of Scotland, and people are often told to go there during heated disputes. If you accent the first syllable instead of the second one you should get the picture. We actually dont spell it that way, but it sounds the same.

Seems the whole accordion world is heading for that same place, whatever you call it where you live.

LOL!!! Ah... but can this parrot talk (and if it could, does it make it a stool pigeon instead)?? If so maybe it could explain the whole thing! :lol:

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Has this been mentioned:
EVO uses Roland technology (apparently with bits missing) so if EVO have teamed up with Parrot, how does that affect Roland instruments - if at all?

For the moment, little if nothing. Roand is not stupid, they are not going to give away their proprietary electronics away for nothing. Yes, there are several things that the Haria line of EVo cannot or does not have compared to the 8X.
- no after touch in the keys (you can program it to the master bar switch... VERY inconvenient)
- battery location is IMHO a poor choice. On 8x, remove 2 screws, remove battery. On EVO, you have to pull the accordion apart at the bellows
- The Richard Noel sets do not work on an EVO
- heck, none of the new expansions from Roland work on the EVO

Now, there are no guarantees in life, and in the future, Parrot may add functionality, and this would pull the digial Buari line further away from Roland, but with the speed that the EVO division moves at, we are talking decades for anything to happen... if it happens at all (it took EVO over 2 years just to make a price list available... lol)

Jerry, most of what you say is true, but I must take issue with you about the access to the battery on the Haria models (remember, I actually tried one this past summer.) The battery access is just below the backpad (to the left of the backpad if youre holding the accordion vertically.) What may have confused you is that the battery pack itself extends further into the bellows space to give these accordions better balance than the FR-8x.

Marco stated that there may be news soon (that was late October) about Roland licensing the ability for the EVO Haria line to take more expansion sets. I saw that on the Bugari EVO Facebook page. If it happens, Im guessing that it would be via a firmware upgrade. Kind of reminds me of how Atari (and others) used to announce hardware and software developments that would get to the market any day now. Those developments, more often than not, would turn out to be vaporware.

By the way, are you following developments on Facebook? Theres the Bugari EVO page and the GR8 IDEAS page that may be of interest to you. IDEAS (International Digital and Electronic Accordion Society) just finished up their first symposium in Warren, Ohio. I didnt go, but I might go if there is another symposium next year. There is an FR-4x in my future shortly after my right arm recovers from my recent cardiac catheterization. I may or may not buy an EVO at some point in the future, but I await further developments from the EVO division because this whole concept fascinates me.

Also, take a look at the photos of the Ronnie Da-Prima digital accordions that the EVO division will be marketing in China next year -- the ones Bugari EVO produced in conjunction with Parrot. If you have a chance, enlarge the one that shows the controls on the grille and see if the labels for those controls look familiar, even if theyre in different locations on those accordions than on Roland products. Did Roland license Bugari EVO to use their technology for that line of accordions, or did Bugari EVO develop their own electronics and give the controls names similar to those of the V-accordions? In general, would Roland just give away, as you asked, their technology? They have to be making some money on the Haria models, and perhaps also on the Ronnie Da-Prima models.

But nobody is talking.

Alan

 

[jozz]

In general, would Roland just give away, as you asked, their technology?

No, the technology comes from one or two Roland Europe guys that stayed behind after the business left Italy and teamed up with Cinaglia and Bugari to form the EVO group. According to earlier interviews this was on request of Cinaglia, and after having the project team complete they constructed the first EVO prototype.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Hello Jazz,

Given the history of competitive tactics among Italian accordion makers I'm not surprised.

Alan