Petosa accordions, over priced?

[Jaime_Dergut]

Hello everybody,

I was wondering something, what are your thoughts about Petosa accordions and their current prices?


To give you some context, I own a Petosa accordion, a student model, and I called Joe Petosa a couple of weeks ago at his shop to clarify some questions. At the end, he referred to me to one of this accordion.

AM-1400ESM


He said that was the introductory model for top professional level. That could be the case, but I still think 4,500$ is too much money for it! ( I paid 500$ for the Petosa I currently own).

I am aware that the quality of Petosas are equivalent to those of Bugaris, but I still wanted to know your opinions about this, and perhaps some advice too.

I was also checking at Liberty bellows and they have some Titano accordions for sale right here:

LINK TO TITANOS AT LIBERTY BELLOWS.

I heard only good things about them, and I think it could be a fair, cheaper alternative to a Petosa.

To be honest, I don't really know if I need an upgrade or this is just compulsive consumerism. I don't know if an upgrade is going to help me learn more songs, impress people at the street or motivate me further.

Thank you for your time and attention.

 

[dak]

I think it makes little sense to blame Petosa and call them unfair for what is a large price gap between preowned instruments and new instruments.

Like with many things, there is a point of diminishing returns with the prices of accordions, and particularly in the world of professional accordionists, a diminishing return may still be worth the investment because a marginally more attractive sound quality can result in sales differences more than offsetting the investment.

 

[John M]

LINK TO TITANOS AT LIBERTY BELLOWS.

I heard only good things about them, and I think it could be a fair, cheaper alternative to a Petosa.

I've had very good experience with the 3 accordions (two 8X's and an acoustic) I have purchased from Liberty Bellows. In particular, I was interested in a used "ACE" they had. I talked to Mike (the owner). He was very honest, told me it was "well used", but his techs repaired any problem areas (tuning/valves, etc.). He told me it had the Cleveland Style polka musette tuning. They shipped it to me from Penn. to Ohio. It arrived in perfect condition, very good packaging for shipping. I am very happy with the accordion.

 

[Ben-jammin]

It seems a bit high for me for a 50 + year old non chambered accordion with TAM reeds. But others may know if there is some real or perceived special sauce from that vintage of Petosa, it looks like a clean example.

 

[Ventura]

" This very fine example was built by petosa in 1969 "

really ?

people ask me why i have my "reservation" regarding Petosa even though
i speak well of them in some ways and even defend them at times

it galls me to have someone tell me to my face stuff like
"our factory in Italy" and the above "built by" bullshit..
to me that is not Marketing, or Message, it is a decades running bald faced lie
and for me is a poison pill, which is still being used as noted with the
mention in the other thread about the mark on the backside of the Americana

but like i said to another fella, Petosa doesn't need me either, they
won't miss me, so hey, if you any of you want to swallow that, go right ahead..

if something is THAT GOOD, then there is no need to go over the top
with embellishing the story, gilding the lily, burying the box in Rhinestones..
the truth should be enough

do you remember the guy who seldom had his own weed, but whenever he
did, had to tell you how fantastic it was the entire time the jay was being passed around ?

 

[debra]

The prices you saw at Liberty Bellows are normal reasonable prices for the accordions shown.
The price you showed from Petosa is not reasonable as far as I can tell.
I also don't believe that that accordion was built in 1969, because the slim style of bass registers I have only seen on much more recent accordions. (It was also highly unlikely "built by" Petosa because Petosa did not do the actual building. Petosa accordions are made by the Bugari/Zero-Sette factory in Castelfidardo.)

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

I think it makes little sense to blame Petosa and call them unfair for what is a large price gap between preowned instruments and new instruments.

I don't really think is unfair. I just believe it might not be my best deal.

The Petosa I own is well made. I appreciate that. I would like to have an upgrade that is just more my body size, and I am still not sure if that's absolutely necessary in my case.

Titatonoes are highly praised by Libertybellows. They say those are among their finest accordions they have so far, and the mot expensive model cost 1500$ less than its Petosa equivalent.

The own I currently own, was sold to me by a master repairman in Chicago, and he actually lowered the price in hopes for me to get it. I am not sure if I could actually get the value back from another Petosa, if I wanted to sell it later.

 

[OuijaBoard]

The prices you saw at Liberty Bellows are normal reasonable prices for the accordions shown.
The price you showed from Petosa is not reasonable as far as I can tell.
I also don't believe that that accordion was built in 1969, because the slim style of bass registers I have only seen on much more recent accordions. (It was also highly unlikely "built by" Petosa because Petosa did not do the actual building. Petosa accordions are made by the Bugari/Zero-Sette factory in Castelfidardo.)

Yes, my theory is that their "Petosa Americana" line are standard Italian instruments that do appear to be priced "normally" compared to equivalent models from known Italian makers. Unlike their premium/luxe "Petosa" models, which appear to be priced noticeably above "normal" for comparable premium product from known Italian makers.

It's a dilemma. Because they are one of the only U.S. concerns that are seriously "representing" for this instrument. They are moving product, too, which one in this accordion climate has to respect--things look kind of moribund at LB in terms of in/out turnover. Petosa is moving accordions--maybe the way to look at it is that if they are delivering and backing a quality product and service experience, perhaps the "premium" is worth it. The gent at Carnegie in PA also appears to move stuff. Perhaps it's no coincidence they both have relationships with Bugari. Interesting.

 

[tcabot]

It seems a bit high for me for a 50 + year old non chambered accordion with TAM reeds

Seems high to me too...

Did they accidentally copy a wrong photo/description though?

"Featuring a mahogany cabinet, mahogany reed blocks, all-walnut keyboard, all leather reed valves, walnut keys with lucite tops, chromed and insulated bass mechanics, walnut bellow frames"

...And all of that goodness covered with 1mm black celluloid? Who cares what's under it then?

 

[Ventura]

lucite tops were not in existence back then

yeah i guess the stuff was from archival adverts.. maybe the pics too ?
they look too perfect

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

The prices you saw at Liberty Bellows are normal reasonable prices for the accordions shown.

They must have read this post, because I remember that Titano accordion with converter was 3000$ yesterday, and today is 4000$, haha.

The price you showed from Petosa is not reasonable as far as I can tell.
I also don't believe that that accordion was built in 1969, because the slim style of bass registers I have only seen on much more recent accordions. (It was also highly unlikely "built by" Petosa because Petosa did not do the actual building. Petosa accordions are made by the Bugari/Zero-Sette factory in Castelfidardo.)

What I understand is that buying a Petosa is pretty much like buying a Bugari. Good quality, but I don't think I am willing to pay that much for it.

 

[Ventura]

They must have read this post, because I remember that Titano accordion with converter was 3000$ yesterday, and today is 4000$, haha.

you are right Jamie, and this is my other pet peeve about accordion retailers

first let me tell you about one of the most successful Music Retail companies in America..
they have been in the top 10 Retailers nationwide for many many deccades, and do more
volume out of 1 store location than many companies with 8 or 10 stores

Chuck Levin's Washington Music

they got to the top being square with their customers.
Mr. Levin established his business on the concept of
having a set markup. Just enough to make a living and pay the bills..
to be successful.. they grew simply because pro Musicians KNOW for a FACT
they can call them up, order whatever they need, and will NEVER BE SCREWED
Period

becuse of that simple fact, we come back over and over and bring our friends, students,
tired and poor..

contrast that with Liberty Bellows, who just proved to the world, they get whatever they can
as much as they can for whatever it is they are selling. If they think you have this much in your pocket,
then guess what, thats how much the accordion you want costs today

in other words, you cannot ever just assume the price they are asking is legit..

because it is based on what they percieve they can get, not what something is
actually worth

and yes, things are actually worth quantifiable and legitimate amounts.. and once
upon a time a lot of places did business that way

but todays value is all about perception, suckers, advertizing effectiveness,
whatever the market will bear, whatever can be gouged due to a real
or faked shortage, as much as you can get regardless of honest value

rant over

 

[Ben-jammin]

you are right Jamie, and this is my other pet peeve about accordion retailers

first let me tell you about one of the most successful Music Retail companies in America..
they have been in the top 10 Retailers nationwide for many many deccades, and do more
volume out of 1 store location than many companies with 8 or 10 stores

Chuck Levin's Washington Music

they got to the top being square with their customers.
Mr. Levin established his business on the concept of
having a set markup. Just enough to make a living and pay the bills..
to be successful.. they grew simply because pro Musicians KNOW for a FACT
they can call them up, order whatever they need, and will NEVER BE SCREWED
Period

becuse of that simple fact, we come back over and over and bring our friends, students,
tired and poor..

contrast that with Liberty Bellows, who just proved to the world, they get whatever they can
as much as they can for whatever it is they are selling. If they think you have this much in your pocket,
then guess what, thats how much the accordion you want costs today

in other words, you cannot ever just assume the price they are asking is legit..

because it is based on what they percieve they can get, not what something is
actually worth

and yes, things are actually worth quantifiable and legitimate amounts.. and once
upon a time a lot of places did business that way

but todays value is all about perception, suckers, advertizing effectiveness,
whatever the market will bear, whatever can be gouged due to a real
or faked shortage, as much as you can get regardless of honest value

rant over

I think this is a bit unfair. The businesses are not really comparable in scale or scope. It’s all good if you are diversified and can sell enough merchandise to meet your suppliers minimum order qualities and make enough on your “fixed” markup to be sure to always cover your overhead and demand for your products is relatively static or at least predictable. There are many music stores that struggle trying to operate under similar principles if they aren’t large enough or diversified enough. Most of the time I see Liberty Bellows change price has been them coming down. I don’t blame them for trying to play the game a bit and make profit where they can because I don’t think they could stay in business if they didn’t, and then what would Petosa’s prices be.

 

[LibraryJoe]

you are right Jamie, and this is my other pet peeve about accordion retailers

first let me tell you about one of the most successful Music Retail companies in America..
they have been in the top 10 Retailers nationwide for many many deccades, and do more
volume out of 1 store location than many companies with 8 or 10 stores

Chuck Levin's Washington Music

they got to the top being square with their customers.
Mr. Levin established his business on the concept of
having a set markup. Just enough to make a living and pay the bills..
to be successful.. they grew simply because pro Musicians KNOW for a FACT
they can call them up, order whatever they need, and will NEVER BE SCREWED
Period

becuse of that simple fact, we come back over and over and bring our friends, students,
tired and poor..

contrast that with Liberty Bellows, who just proved to the world, they get whatever they can
as much as they can for whatever it is they are selling. If they think you have this much in your pocket,
then guess what, thats how much the accordion you want costs today

in other words, you cannot ever just assume the price they are asking is legit..

because it is based on what they percieve they can get, not what something is
actually worth

and yes, things are actually worth quantifiable and legitimate amounts.. and once
upon a time a lot of places did business that way

but todays value is all about perception, suckers, advertizing effectiveness,
whatever the market will bear, whatever can be gouged due to a real
or faked shortage, as much as you can get regardless of honest value

rant over

Chucks is indeed worth a visit from anywhere in the DC area. Their selection of band and string instruments is first rate as is their customer service and reputation. Unfortunately for us they only appear to sell entry level Hohner PAs and diatonics.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

contrast that with Liberty Bellows, who just proved to the world, they get whatever they can
as much as they can for whatever it is they are selling. If they think you have this much in your pocket,
then guess what, thats how much the accordion you want costs today

in other words, you cannot ever just assume the price they are asking is legit..

because it is based on what they perceive they can get, not what something is
actually worth

and yes, things are actually worth quantifiable and legitimate amounts.. and once
upon a time a lot of places did business that way

but todays value is all about perception, suckers, advertizing effectiveness,
whatever the market will bear, whatever can be gouged due to a real
or faked shortage, as much as you can get regardless of honest value

rant over

And I think you are right, so I will follow the advice that Joe Petosa gave me and see accordion retailers the same way as car dealerships. Ha!


Well, I think I found a Titano accordion on facebook market place, and the owner is relatively close to me.

Description:

TITANO Virtuoso accordion, 4/5 hand made reeds, 19.25' keyboard come with case.

Owner is asking for 2700$ Canadian dollars, which will be approximately 2000$ for me. Nice deal, heh?
Seems in good condition, has those tube chambers (whatever those are for), but I feel the treble keys are kind of not aligned perfectly? Maybe is just me. I still have to contact the owner for further questions that I have.

Still, could be a better deal than the ones from Libertybellows. I think is the same model as this one? LINK HERE

What do you guys think?

 

[Ventura]

well one thing i want to make sure, because you like running around and
playing wherever.. Convertor accordions are heavier by a few pounds..

the slinging it over your shoulder in a soft case and wandering the hills
and subways and malls is far more likely if you just scale down to a
simpler, no tone chamber 4/5 standard accordion, which there are
still lots of popping up @ 1000 bucks like the accordiana's

it depends on how versatile you need this next accordion to be, unless you
are seeing yourself with a collection of them in short order

how badly did you want that quint convertor titano at Lib ?

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

how badly did you want that quint convertor titano at Lib ?

I just wanted to try a full size accordion since Joe Petosa told me a compact size would not fit my body properly. (I'm a big man)

It would be an upgrade for my Petosa student model. Is not that I really need it that bad. I have a 72 folk accordion that I used to walk around the city. but it is limited because it only has 37 keys.

But that's pretty much it.

 

[breezybellows]

I just wanted to try a full size accordion since Joe Petosa told me a compact size would not fit my body properly. (I'm a big man)

It would be an upgrade for my Petosa student model. Is not that I really need it that bad. I have a 72 folk accordion that I used to walk around the city. but it is limited because it only has 37 keys.

But that's pretty much it.

I am selling my Siwa and Figli accordion. Let me know if you're interested. I've posted in the for sale section in this forum.

Also not that titano converters use a quint converter system.